Jesus Christ Came In The Flesh

EmbracingTheTruth Hub Author 3 years ago

SirDent,

Thank you for your comment. I totally agree with you, the Bible is very hard to understand and people believe what they are taught. There are many things which I struggle with myself, but I know that God will not hold me accountable for what I don't know, and the same goes for these denominations.

God Bless!

EmbracingTheTruth Hub Author 3 years ago

Hi Eddie,

Thank You for your comment. You're absolutely right, when people are open to learn they will change their belief, God doesn't relveal it all in one day, we have to search for the answers.

It saddens me though when you see this gap between the denominations so great that they condemn each other to go to hell. I have been in churches where that was done and I just think they could learn so much from each other, because I believe the motive or spirit behind most doctrines is to please God.

It also saddens me to hear that pastors are taught by people who don't believe the Bible is the word of God. I had no idea that was happening.

Thanks again Eddie, God Bless!

EmbracingTheTruth Hub Author 23 months ago

sergio, thank you for stopping by.

EmbracingTheTruth Hub Author 7 months ago

Luke, Thanks for that chapter, I'll be sure to read it.

You said "The Lord Jesus was born a man in the flesh and was tempted but never sinned as so sin was condemned. (This is also Romans 8)" This is one of the most powerful explanations of who Jesus was and how He lived. But it is sad that most Christians do not believe it. Jesus was a man who lived under the Holy Spirit and if we live under that spirit as well, then we too can overcome sin. (At least those sins that we are aware of).

Thank you for the link to your site, I'll be sure to check it out.

EmbracingTheTruth Hub Author 7 months ago

Thank you Luke, I agree with you that we can only rely on one God and not on the church for salvation.

You quote Mark 16:16, which I believe has been misinterpreted by the church in order to gain dominance over people through water baptism and church membership. But I believe that your interpretation of it might be different because you also quote Ephesians where it says that there is one baptism.

I believe that the one baptism it speaks of is the baptism of the Holy Spirit, and not a water baptism. Just wondering how you understand it and what you think of water baptism.

Thank you.

EmbracingTheTruth Hub Author 7 months ago

I agree that there is nothing wrong with church membership or baptism as long as they are done in accordance with the Bible. However, I do not believe that you need to be baptized in water in order to be saved. When Jesus said you must be born of water and the Spirit, I believe he was referring to our physical birth as our bodies are 80-90% water.

Paul even said it himself in Hebrews 5-6 to stop the laying on of hands, water baptism and other preachings until they had moved on to perfection. Therefore, I believe that God is far more concerned as to what is on the inside than in our external actions in regards to church fellowship, water baptism and other rituals.

I don't mean to argue, but I cannot agree with you unless I see it too. The spirit will reveal one thing to one, and another thing to another so that we can all learn from one another, yet believe what the spirit has revealed to us.

Thank you for the website link.

EmbracingTheTruth Hub Author 7 months ago

Hi Luke,

I apologize for the lengthy explanation as to why I believe what I believe, but here it is. You do not have to agree with what I believe because we all have a path set before us that we must follow. So here it goes...

It is hard to say whether Nicodemus knew that or not. We like to think that the ancients had no wisdom, but in all honesty, I believe they had a far greater understanding of life and other things than we can imagine.

But as I said before, I do not think that there is anything wrong with water baptism when it is done in accordance with the Bible. Even Paul said in Hebrews 6:3 “And this will we do if God permit.”

The verses that I am referring to are found in Hebrews 5:11-6:3. The King James reads as follows:

5:11: Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.

v12: For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.

v13: for every one that useth milk is unskillful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.

v14: But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

6:1: Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

v2: Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

v3: And this will we do, if God permit.

What the passage is basically saying is this: If one requires milk, then one is unfit to be a teacher of God’s word. But if one can handle strong meat, then one can teach. However, there is another important quality that follows those who can handle strong meat. And that is they will be able to discern between good and evil.

Anyone who cannot discern between good and evil is not fit to be a teacher of God’s word.

But along with that discernment comes responsibility. If one knows that something is evil, then one must refrain from that act. We will never be without sin, but we must overcome the sins in our life that we know to be sin. Jesus said it on multiple occasions when He healed someone to “Go and sin no more.”

James 4:17 says: “therefore to him that knoweth to do good and doeth it not, to him it is sin.”

In light of that, if a preacher cannot overcome his own sins, then he has no business behind the pulpit or anywhere else because it is a sign that he is unable to handle strong meat.

And that is what the first 2 verses of chapter 6 are talking about. Paul is basically saying, before we can start teaching about Jesus, about the resurrection, of baptism or anything else, we must first move on to perfection. This means to overcome the sins in our lives that we know to be sinful. And when we have done so, then we can go and baptize and preach the word.

This reiterates what Jesus said in Matthew 7:5 “Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of they brother’s eye.”

So if we cannot live a life that is free from sin to the best of our knowledge, then we will not be able to help another to do so. And if we cannot do that, then we might not even try because instead of bringing people closer to God, we will only turn them away.

1 Timothy 3:5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?) This verse is referring only to the ruling of the wife and children, but it can also be taken to mean in the ruling of himself. For if he cannot rule over his own sinful struggles, then how will rule over his family?

Every preacher and every Christian whom I have come face to face with so far, does not believe that we can overcome sin. They believe that if we say the sinners prayer, get baptized, join the church and give 10% of our money to the church then we can commit the same sins every day until the day we die and still be saved, as long as we tell God that we are sorry at the end of the day. I do not agree with that because it goes against the teachings of Jesus. Therefore, I do not go to church and have not been baptized in water.

If I ever meet a preacher who believes that it is possible to overcome the sins that we know to be sin, and he himself has overcome his sins, then I would be glad to get baptized in water IF (and only if) the Holy Spirit leads me in that direction. But until then, I am at peace without it because a preacher who has not moved on to perfection has no business baptizing others, especially me.

You say that there is only one way to be saved and that is to believe and get baptized in water. In regards to that, I would like to ask how the thief on the cross was saved. If water baptism is absolutely essential, then how could Jesus have promised him paradise without it?

In an earlier comment you referred to Mark 16:16 where Jesus says: “He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”

Notice how Jesus says he that believeth and is baptized will be saved. But He does not say he that believeth not and is not baptized shall not be saved. When Jesus made that statement about baptism, He was referring to the baptism of the Holy Spirit, which can only come upon people once they believe and have repented. It has nothing to do with water baptism.

I could get baptized in water a hundred times, but it would not save me. And I could believe in God all I can and want, but it will not save me.

James 2:19 “Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.”

What I am trying to say is that unless we have the baptism of the Holy Spirit we cannot enter in. This baptism can come upon anyone who submits to God, whether or not he/she has received a water baptism or goes to church. This includes ALL the people in the world, no matter what their religious background, because God will teach them.

Hebrews 8:11 “and they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.”

EmbracingTheTruth Hub Author 7 months ago

Hi Luke, I do not disagree with your interpretation of Hebrews 5 and 6 at all. There is just a lot more to it than what you get out of it. My interpretation does not contradict yours at all, but rather, they complement each other very well. But if you think there is a contradiction, can you let me know where and how.

The basics are very important as you said. But it turns people away when they are presented with a fake religion. Jesus warned the pharisees about this in Matthew 23:15, and it is exactly what is going on the world today. many sincere people have turned away from God because the Christian gospel that they received did not make sense or wasn’t working for them. Therefore, unless one has a thorough understanding of the truth, it is better not to speak. And that is what Paul (or whoever) was saying. He wanted them to grow up so that they could continue preaching, but otherwise forget it.

Every Christian, except 1, whom I have met face to face are very comfortable living in sin and I am not. If I do not overcome my sins, I will die the second death, and so will everyone else who does not overcome sin. (The second death by the way is not eternal punishment in burning flames). But Christian preachers and other Christians tell me that I will not be able to overcome my sins, or live with a clear conscience. Therefore, i do not want to be apart of their group, let alone be baptized. And I lost touch with the one who would have been worthy.

I apologize for my poor understanding, but your explanation in regards to the thief on the cross does not make sense to me because I don’t understand how the thief could be baptized on his death just because he was crucified with Jesus. I understand that he was baptized with the Holy Spirit, but I don’t understand that his death with Jesus eliminated the need for water baptism. Is that what you are saying, or are you saying that baptism was not necessary before the death of Jesus?

And you are right once again, the true baptism can only come if you believe. This is the baptism of the Holy Spirit, which is required in order for anyone to be saved.

As for Matthew 7:21-23, they are a few of the life-changing verses for me. Those verses hounded me when I was still in the church and claimed to be a Christian and I often wondered whether I would be in that group. I have not yet moved on to perfection, but at least now I have a hope within, which the church could not give me.

EmbracingTheTruth Hub Author 7 months ago

Hi Luke, I apologize for taking so long to respond - I was busy trying to get all my work done for the week. Now I can relax again. It seems as though we just can’t understand what the other saying. I can understand where you are coming from on your views because I was once in a similar group myself.

First of all, I don’t think that I have said once that water baptism was unimportant. What I have said is that it will not save anyone. However, when done correctly, it serves a purpose in making a commitment to God and by witnessing to others around.

When I say ‘otherwise forget it’, I mean forget the whole thing about the basics and the advanced, just like Paul says. It is hard for me to explain this but I will try. I want to clarify that I believe the fundamentals, such as baptism, repentance, explanation of the Resurrection and so on, are very important under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. But when done in accordance with standard church rules and traditions, they become ineffective and instead of bringing people to God, they will only turn them away. The reason for this is that the person doing the baptism is not led by the spirit (he/she cannot handle meat), which means the power of God is not present.

There was a message that was preached in the Old Testament. Then John the Baptist came on the scene and preached a different message. Jesus preached a unique message, and then after the crucifixion the message changed again. Then read Revelation, and there is yet another message in the letters to the churches. All messages align with one another, they complement one another, but each of them was different preached at a time when they were needed. The message that needs to go out today, is NOT the “Jesus loves you” message or the “You need to get baptized message” because Christianity has taken the name of God in vain and turned the sincere and logical people away. Therefore, the message of today should be a message that will draw those people in and allow them to find the truth for themselves. And the best way to do that is to simply keep quiet Jesus, God and the whole religious thing and LIVE our lives in accordance to what the Bible says. For if we cannot live in accordance with what the Bible says, then we have no business preaching about it, or talking about it to others who are not interested, because it will only turn others away.

Once we can live in accordance to the Bible, others will see a difference in us, and they will come to us and want to know what it is about us. Then that is our opportunity to share the fundamentals of God, and not a moment sooner.

1 Peter 3:15 “Be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear.”

This is the living testimony that we are to deliver to the lost. Not getting up in front of ones church buddies and explaining what a terrible sinner they were before they came to their Jesus.

Jesus told His disciples on one occasion to do as the pharisees say, but not as they do (Matthew 23:3). Then in the same chapter verse 15, He told the pharisees that they were taking a child of the devil, and turning him into a devil twice as big.

So in other words, a true gospel that is not backed up with righteous acts will produce wickedness. It is far better to keep quiet if we cannot be a living example. Perhaps the above verses from Jesus was what Paul thinking of when he wrote Hebrews 5-6.

In answer to your question, Yes, most Christians who I know do not try to overcome sin. They say we should strive for it, but they never make any changes. I had never studied Romans 6 much, but I will use it as a tool next time and maybe I can get through to them. Thank you.

I do not believe that I will ever be perfect. There will be sin in my life until the day I day, because the things that I have been raised to believe are okay are not okay with God. However, when God reveals a sin to me, I must deal with and overcome it. God does not reveal all sin at once, because that would be too overwhelming. So he reveals them as the person is ready for them.

If you do not believe that, tell me what you will do with Revelation 21:7 “He who overcomes shall inherit all things:” There are many other verses in revelation that speak of overcoming. If it isn’t sin, tell me, what are we to overcome. Also, tell me what Jesus meant when He told the people to go and sin no more, if He didn’t mean exactly what He said.

You say we need to try our best to overcome sin, but our best will not do. That is trying to get saved by works. We must overcome it, and the only way that we can overcome sin is if we have the Holy Spirit living within our mind and our heart. The Holy Spirit is the only one who can help us to overcome sin. It is not our doing, but the doing of the Holy Spirit.

Another question, how can we be dead to sin, and still continue to commit sins which we know to be sins?

As for the law, I know that it will not save me. But at the same time, it is important that we keep the commandments of God. Jesus repeatedly told His disciples that if they loved him, that they would keep his commandments. And these are not just the 10 commandments, but ALL the commandments (except for the ceremonial laws given to the Israelites) starting with Genesis. At the same time, however, these commandments need to be carried out under the guidance of the Holy Spirit and not church rules and traditions. It is the same with the law as with water baptism. It is good ONLY when practiced in accordance with God.

Do you know what will condemn us on the day of judgment? Read Romans Chapter 2 particularly from verse 11 and onward. Also read 1 John 3:21 “if our heart condemn us not, then we have confidence before God.”

You might also want to do a study on faith. Hebrews 11 is a great place to start. You will notice that faith is directly hearing from God and then acting upon what was heard. Faith cannot come from reading the Bible or listening to the preacher, but it can only come from God through the power of the Holy Spirit.

As for who can baptize us...I believe it is any man (not sure in regards to women) who has been baptized with the Holy Spirit. Just because someone has a license from the church or government does not give them the right to baptize in God’s name. What is your take on it? and do you believe that all those who did not get baptized in water will go to hell?

I have to admire you for saying that you do not claim to have the Holy Spirit. You are the first Christian I know to admit it. I don’t have the Spirit in me all the time either because I still wander away from time to time. When I tell my Christian friends that they think I’m satanic lol.

As for two spirits, that is something entirely new to me. Do you have a study on it on your site? If so, would you post the link? Thank you.

EmbracingTheTruth Hub Author 6 months ago

Hi Luke, I am glad you had a good time away at Bible study and thank you for the link on the spirits. I cannot make a comment as to what I believe on it because I have to study it first. I tried to keep it brief this time, but it just doesn’t seem to work as I have to clarify a few things, and also have a few questions for you, if you don’t mind.

As I stated earlier “Once we can live in accordance to the Bible, others will see a difference in us, and they will come to us and want to know what it is about us. Then that is our opportunity to share the fundamentals of God, and not a moment sooner.” I am not sure what you think I meant by that seeing that you gave me all the verses on how we are instructed to preach.

You quote Matthew 28:19-20 “God ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the FAther, and the Son and the Holy Ghost; Teaching them to OBSERVE ALL THINGS WHATSOEVER I HAVE COMMANDED YOU......”

Did Jesus not endorse the Sabbath (seventh day?) Is that not one of the 10 commandments? And how many times did Jesus say, “I have not come to destroy the law”

I know that Acts 20:7 is used to back up Sunday worship, but doing so seems to imply that Sunday is the only day wherein a preacher can preach. Preaching was a part of Paul’s life and he preached pretty much every day. In addition, this was his last day with the believers in this place. Why would he waste it doing anything else?

You quote Mark 16:15, but have you read verse 17and 18? “And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.”

Do you believe verses 17 and 18? and if so how do you interpret them?

You asked “Have you thought about how sin could be failing to do what’s right, not just doing what’s wrong?” In an earlier comment I quoted James 4:17: “Therefore to him that knoweth to do good and doeth it not, to him it is sin.” I believe that should answer your question.

You said: “I would say that we are to overcome the world, we are to recognise how we have failed God, repent and be baptised and then live our lives to God no more living in sin but to go sin no more.” You say that, but you don’t believe that you can overcome the sins that you know to be sins. And I don’t understand what you mean by being free from sin. To me that means that I will not be a slave to sin. This means that when I know that something is sinful, that I will have the power not to do that sin anymore.

Just to clarify, I never said that faith can only come IF you have the Holy Spirit. I said it can only come by the power of the Holy Spirit. Acts 8:12-18 says nothing about faith. It talks about believing, (which I know you believe is the same as having faith, but it is something entirely different). The devils believe, yet they have not faith. There is a huge difference. Faith is hearing from God, knowing that it is of God, and then acting upon it.

You say: “I can’t think of any passage to say that whoever is baptising must be a believer.” Can you think of a verse where Jesus commanded the pharisees or the unbelievers to and baptize people?

Jesus was baptized in order to meet the requirements of the priesthood. In the Old Testament, only the Levites were allowed to be priests, and only they were required to get baptized, which really is only a washing. And because Jesus was not of the tribe of Levites, he could not receive the washing at the temple. So he had to go into the wilderness to John. That is why John the Baptist is referred to as the forerunner for Jesus. If He had not been there to baptize (wash) Jesus in the water, then Jesus would not have been able to minister. This is why I believe that anyone who does not have the Holy Spirit should not be preaching or baptizing anyone. We have to follow in the footsteps of Jesus because there is no other way to enter in.

You seem to say that anyone who does not receive a water baptism will end up dying the second death. Personally, I think that a God who would leave the salvation of people in the hands of religion is a merciless God. What about those who never had a chance to hear or be baptized in water? Will God make them die too? Have you read about the baptism of the Holy Spirit, and how God will teach His people? He can do that with or without the help of mankind. The baptism of the Holy Spirit can come upon any man, woman or child, whether they have been baptized in water or not. The salvation of others is NOT in the hands of Christianity.

Thanks

EmbracingTheTruth Hub Author 6 months ago

Hi Luke, I apologize for being so hard on you, but appreciate you giving your answers. I believe that we need to be able to explain our belief, which goes for myself as well. This has been a tremendous challenge for myself and I will try my best to answer the questions you have asked.

It was about a year ago that the truth about the Sabbath was revealed to me. And it wasn’t done through preaching but through my own studies and revelation of God. I studied the subject for at least 3 to 4 years before the answer finally came to me. The Sabbath was a commandment that was instituted way before the time of Moses. It was one of the 10 commandments that was written in stone, which represents as a symbol that they will not change, regardless of the times we live in. Jesus often told His disciples that he had not come to do away with the law.

In regards to Collossians 2:16, it is important that we read it in context. In verse 14 it says: “ Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;”

Then verse 16 says: “Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days.”

The keyword in verse 14 is Ordinance. You most likely think that it is the same as a commandment, but there is a big difference. The ordinances that God gave to Moses and the people of Israel were meant for them only. We can keep them if we like, but since they were nailed to the cross we are no longer obligated to do so. The commandments, on the other hand, are vital that we keep them. Not because they will save us, but because they will bring us closer to God and serve as a witness to others.

If you study the ordinances that God gave to the Israelites you will find that all those things listed in verse 16 were ordinances, and not commandments. The Israelites had to follow them or else they were to be punished. That included what they ate and drank, how they dressed, new moon celebrations and sabbath days. The Israelites celebrated many sabbath days, which had nothing to do with the seventh day Sabbath. Those ordinances were nailed to the cross, and we no longer have to keep them; but the seventh day Sabbath still stands and was observed by the early church. You will find this to be true if you study the history books around that time.

Whatever principle that we apply to one part of the verse, we must also apply to the rest of the verse or the passage. In this case if we apply the same type of interpretation to “Let no man judge you in meat or in drink” would mean that I can enjoy a bottle of wine with every meal. Yet that hardly seems christ-like.

As for Mark 16:17-18, you did not give your explanation of what those verses mean. You say that those are the gifts of the Holy Spirit, which I believe is correct. However, the verses say nothing about the Holy Spirit. VEerse 17 says: And these signs shall follow them that believe. You say that you do not have the Holy Spirit, but yet you believe, which in my understanding means that you should have those signs follow you. So my question once again, is what is your interpretation of those signs that will follow. Also, do you have any of them?

As for me, I am not sure whether they apply or not because I do not believe that women are to preach. However, it does say that those signs will follow ALL those who believe. Therefore, if I am a true believer, then I should have those or at least some of those signs follow me. To believe and be baptized (with the Holy Spirit) means to obey. And so I believe that I am much to new at this, and in order for those signs to follow me, I must first learn to obey and overcome sin.

I do not believe that we will obtain all these signs in one day because we would not be able to handle them. God only gives the gifts as we work with what He has already given. I have come a long way and it might even be safe to say that I can claim a few, like speaking with new tongues and taking up serpents.

A brief explanation of what I think they mean...

I believe that each one of the signs represents the physical and the spiritual. For example, you cannot see a devil, but you can drive him out of a person, which then physically releases the person who was possessed.

And they will speak with new tongues. This simply means that they will not speak the way they used to. Gossip and lies will be a thing of the past, and one will be able to speak boldly of the truths that God has revealed, no matter what others may think.

They shall take up serpents and drink deadly poisons and not die. Paul was able to do this, I believe that it was a miracle that God chose to do at the time, and I believe that He can do it again, but we shouldn’t tempt God to do this for us.

From a spiritual perspective, the serpent represents the devil and to drink poisons means to be exposed to the devil and his ways. Most religious groups will do whatever they can to keep their flocks isolated and not have close fellowship with another group for fear that they will flock to the other group. (I don’t believe this is true for your group, because you are still debating me). But when you believe in God and you have the truth, then it don’t matter what people say to you, they cannot mislead you or cause you to sin in any way.

They shall lay hands on the sick and they shall recover. I believe that this is a healing of the physical as well as of the spiritual, which one can do only after one has overcome his or her own spiritual and physical problems. The blind cannot lead the blind. But I will say this, I have suffered from an illness my whole life, which nearly killed me this past year before God finally showed me a cure. Over three years ago, the doctors told me that there was nothing they could for me to help me recover from my situation, and so I quit the docs and put my trust in God. In these last 10 months, I have overcome health problems which the docs told me I would never overcome. And I took no medicine, I only followed God’s commanded, which He gave to Adam and Eve in Genesis, in regards to what they should eat. Keeping the commandments will NOT save us, but they sure can help us. The reason I am saying this, is because perhaps one day when I can overcome my physical illness then I might be able to help others as well. And when I can overcome my sins, then perhaps I will be able to help others do the same.

As for ACts 8, you brought it up to prove to me that faith could come if you didn’t have the Holy Spirit, which I never argued against. My argument was that faith can only come by the power of the Holy spirit. And yes, although the chapter does not mention faith, it aligns with the definition. But, how did the disciples know that they were doing the right thing when they are baptized? Who revealed it to them? I hope that you are not going to say that it was Philip. It was the Holy Spirit who revealed it to them and gave them the faith that they needed in order to obey. They did not yet have the Spirit, but they could still learn from him.

I believe that this is the stage at where I am at. I am learning from the Spirit, but do not have him yet. At least not all the time, because if I did, I would not be committing the sins that I knwo to be sins. For to say that I have the spirit all the time and then not live like it is taking the Lord’s Name in vain. But there is no denying that He is close and workign in my life on a daily baiss, teaching me new things and helping me.

Luke 3:16 “John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I commeth, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose; he shal baptize you with the Holy Ghost and Fire.”

I believe that you are baptized with the Holy Spirit when you learn to walk in God’s way. We do not decide when that baptism will occur, but God does, and we have to be obedient and wait on HIm. You can know that you have the HOly Spirit when you are able to stand up for the truth like the apostles did on the day of pentecost when they received the Spirit. When you receive the spirit,

EmbracingTheTruth Hub Author 6 months ago

Hey Luke, I apologize for my lack of time, but I do not have time today or tomorrow to look up those scriptures concerning the Sabbaths. They exist, I just have to find them. I also want to study your material on the spirits so that I can give you a better answer. Thank you for being patient.

EmbracingTheTruth Hub Author 6 months ago

Regarding the Sabbaths of the Israelites:

The word sabbath basically refers to a day of rest, a day that God has made holy. This includes the seventh day sabbath. We cannot change this day of rest, because it was one of the 10 commandments, which we are to keep if we are in Christ. God also referred to other rest days as the sabbath. These rest days were given to the Israelites to keep during their time. It was these statutes or ordinances that were nailed to the cross. Not the seventh day Sabbath.

The difference between the seventh day sabbath and the other sabbaths, is that the seventh day sabbath was established at the time of creation, and will last into eternity. The other sabbaths, (ordinances) were established for the Israelites and were meant for them only.

Mark 2:27 says that “the sabbath was made for man.”

Leviticus 16:29--31: “And this shall be a statute for ever unto you: that in the seventh month, on the tenth day of the month, ye shall afflict your souls, and do no work at all, whether it be one of your own country, or a stranger that sojourneth among you: For on that day shall the priest make an atonement for you, to cleanse you, that ye may be clean from all your sins before the Lord. It shall be a SABBATH of rest onto you, and ye shall afflict your souls, by a statute for ever.”

Clearly the tenth day on the seventh month did not always follow on the seventh-day sabbath. Yet, God calls it a Sabbath of rest. The command to keep this sabbath is also found in Leviticus 23:26-32.

Another one is found in Leviticus 23:33-44. Verse 39 says: “Also in the fifteenth day of the seventh month, when ye have gathered in the fruit of the land, ye shall keep a feast unto the Lord seven days: on the first day shall be a sabbath, and on the eighth day shall be a sabbath.” This verse could mean that that the celebration begins on seventh day sabbath and ends just before the next sabbath. However, it is highly unlikely that the 15th day of the seventh month always falls on the same day of the week.

Also note that in the seventh month they are to keep both the 10th day and the 15th day as a sabbath. There are not 6 days in between these two sabbaths, making it clear that the word sabbath refers to other days of celebration, not just the seventh day sabbath.

Leviticus 25:4: “But in the seventh year shall be a sabbath of rest unto the land, a sabbath for the Lord: thou shalt neither sow thy field, nor prune thy vineyard.”

It is the above sabbaths that are spoken of in Colossians 2:14-16. Also see 2 Chronicles 2:4 “behold, I build an house to the name of the Lord my God, to dedicate it to him, and to burn before him sweet incense, and for the continual shewbread, and for the burnt offerings morning and evening, on the sabbaths, and on the new moons, and on the solemn feast of the Lord our God. This is an ORDINANCE for ever to Israel.” You can find detailed instructions concerning these ordinances in Leviticus and the other books of Moses.

See Matthew 5:17-19. Verse 17 says: “Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am come to fulfil. 18.) For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fullfilled. 19) Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven...” I believe this is self-explanatory and is meant for all people until the end of the world as we know it today. In other words, the law will be there for us to keep until this old earth passes away.

Romans 3:31: “Do we then make void the law through Faith? God forbid: yea we establish the law.” Correct me if I am wrong but this is referring to the 10 commandments, which includes keeping the seventh day Sabbath.

If you do not agree with the above, please pick it apart and show me that I am wrong. I would like to know how you can interpret the above verses in another way so that they do not contradict one another. Also, how can you fit the above verses together with what you believe. Thank you for your time.

I’ll respond to the rest of your questions shortly.

EmbracingTheTruth Hub Author 6 months ago

As for Acts 15 19:20. You are absolutely right. We cannot tell anyone to keep the Sabbath or any other commandments, but only that they keep their mind and bodies pure. Everything else is to be left up to the Holy Spirit, who will teach us, and when he reveals to us that we need to keep that day, then we need to keep that day. If someone is unaware that we should keep the Sabbath and they continue to keep the sunday or any other day, then God will not hold them accountable.

EmbracingTheTruth Hub Author 6 months ago

Concerning Acts 8, You said you do believe that God revealed the faith to the new believers through Philip. Would you say that it would have been possible to do so if Philip had not had the Holy Spirit?

And you are absolutely right. We are not under the law, for it cannot save anyone. However, keeping the law will help us to live a long and happy life. Deuteronomy 28:58-60 says: “If thou wilt not observe to do all the words of this law (which I believe were the 10 commandments and many of the ordinances concerning diet, lifestyle and moral laws) that are written in this book, that thou mayest fear this glorious and fearful name, The Lord Thy God. Then the Lord will make thy plagues wonderful, and the plagues of thy seed, even great plagues, and of long continuance, and sore sicknessess, and of long continuance. Moreover he will bring upon thee all the diseases of Egypt, which thou wast afraid of; and they shall cleave unto thee.”

I can only use myself and my sickness as an example. Once I started obeying some of the commandments that God gave in the Old Testament, my healing process was able to begin. Had I not changed my diet, which was in obedience to the commandment given in Genesis, I don’t think that I would still be here today, at least not at the quality of life that I have today. I don’t consider myself under the law because it is not a burden to me, but rather it has made my life a million times easier. And I thank you for your encouragement.

And just one more thing on the Sabbath (sorry I can’t let it go yet), if you knew what the Sunday represents and why people started worshipping God on Sunday, then you would not want to part-take in worship on that day. At least I don’t think you would. I would encourage you to study the history of the early church, sun worship and pagan holidays. Youtube has a lot of eye-opening videos around those topics. Also read Ezekiel 8, where people in God’s house have turned to sunworship. On the outside it looks as though they are worshipping God, but on the inside, they really are worshipping the sun god.

I believe that we are in agreement in regards to not being saved by works (keeping the law), in that we will never be perfect, and that we must have works that follow our faith. The only argument that I have, even after reading your article and verses, is that the sins that we know to be sins have to be overcome and eliminated from our lives.

Correct me if I am wrong, but you do not seem to believe in the power of the Holy Spirit. I believe that we must be baptized with the Holy Spirit in order to be saved. This is, from my understanding, the same Holy Spirit that Jesus was born of. So then, once we are born again of the Holy Spirit (baptized with the Holy Spirit), then we too have the same power that Jesus had, and we can overcome sin just like He did. The only difference is, that Jesus was not born into sin like we were. Therefore, Jesus had the power and understanding of what sin was right from the get-go. We, on the other hand, will spend the rest of our lives discovering and overcoming our sinful nature, one sinful act at a time.

The unknown sins in our lives are not necessarily gross sins, but small sins like not following our conscience in doing what is right, wasting our time watching tv or reading fiction books, and so on.

Basically anything that will not draw us closer to God is a sin, but only if we become aware of it. If we do not understand how watching a tv show takes away time from God, then we are sinning against God, but not against our conscience. If we do not know that spending time with the wrong crowd is a sin, then we are sinning against God, but not against our conscience. Conscious sin is the only sin that will condemn us on the day of judgment. In other words, it is our conscience that will cause us to die the second death, not God, the devil or hellfires, as many religions teach. For God is not an unjust God who will punish someone for something they didn’t know was wrong.

Once we start to draw closer to God (obey the commandments), then the Spirit will begin to reveal our unknown sin to us, and when he does, then we must overcome in order to be saved.

It is an ongoing process, and Peter is the perfect example of it. He was brave and totally sincere. The Spirit had already revealed it to him who Jesus was (Matthew 16:17), yet in Luke 22:32-33, just before the crucifixion, Jesus says to Peter: “...And when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren. And he said unto him, Lord, I am ready to go with thee, both to prison and to death.” Peter was brave, he had an understanding, but not enough to keep him from sinning because a few hours later, Peter denied even knowing Jesus 3 times. However, Peter repented and was strengthened to the point where later he did die for the sake of Jesus. He overcame just like we are to overcome. And the only way that we can overcome is by the power of the Holy Spirit.

2 Timothy 3: 5 says that in the last days there will be religions “having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof.” I don’t know what you make of this verse, but I believe that this is talking about the power of the Holy Spirit, which can help us to overcome our conscious sin.

As for the end of Galatians 2, it is a beautiful passage. Verse 21: “I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.”

In Matthew 5:20 Jesus said: “That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.”

The pharisees kept the law in all aspects, yet they were on their way to condemnation because they had no righteousness. If you continue reading in Matthew 5 you will find out what this righteousness is that we need to have. Jesus did not take away the commandments, but rather, He has given us a much stricter pathway to follow in order to be saved. Under the law, we can still dream about sin, but under the guidance of the Holy Spirit (which we are to live by), there is no room for wicked thoughts or any type of such sin. The freedom of living under the law is not that we don’t have to keep the commandments, but that we keep the commandments and then some! We have to purify our minds and our conscience. we are held to a much higher degree of purity and sinlessness than the Old Testament people were because we are to live under the power of the Holy Spirit.

Galatians 3:24-25 “Wherefore the law was our school master to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.”

Faith is the guidance, or the instructions from God in order to live our lives on a day-to-day basis so that we can live in peace with God. When we have this faith, we can know an alternate route instead of falling into sin.

Galatians 5:18 “But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.” So we are either under the law or under the Spirit. We all start out under the law, but then we become free under the guidance of the Spirit. We still keep the law, but it has no effect on us, because we won’t commit any of those offenses any longer.

As for Romans 7, I am with Paul when he says in verse 24, “O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?” Then he answers his question in verse 25 “I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord.” And he repeats what he stated earlier, “So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.” he is simply stating the fact that with the conscience mind we can serve God, but with the flesh we serve sin. He hates the fact that he has to fight against the flesh, but then he is thankful that he doesn’t have to yield to his flesh because of Jesus. Why else would he thank Jesus if He couldn’t save him from the fleshly desires.

You stopped at the end of chapter 7, but Paul goes on in chapter 8:1, “There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.” In other words, what Paul is saying is that once we stop walking after the flesh,

EmbracingTheTruth Hub Author 6 months ago

Yay we came to an agreement! We have to live by our conscience and do what God reveals to us. I like Romans 14:5, thanks for sharing it. Also, thank you for the link, I'll be sure to check it out.

EmbracingTheTruth Hub Author 6 months ago

“Yeah we agree that we should keep our consciences clean, (Though I do believe that there's more to salvation than just a clean conscience)” This is a contradictory statement, because if I want to be saved according to your defination of salvation, I would end up with a guilty conscience. Your definition of salvation requires that we follow the advice of others by being baptized when we are not moved from the inside (outside of the conscience). Any time we follow after men, and not our conscience, we will end up with a guilty conscience. We cannot serve 2 masters.

And you are right, Chronicles 2:4 does not have the word ordinance in the original text. But if it isn’t referring to the ordinances can you tell me what they were, and why Colossians 2:14-16 refers to the same things as ordinances. Also please tell me what the ordinances were that the Israelites were to keep.

The word ordinance comes from Strong's number H2708, which is the word chuqqah. It is translated 77 times as statute, 22 times as ordinance, 2 times as custom, once as appointed, once as manners, and once as rites. http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexico

The question in regards to all being fullfilled is easy to answer. Matthew 5:18 “For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fullfilled.” Heaven and earth is still standing as it has since the beginning of time. Therefore, all has not been fullfilled.

I don’t think that you are understanding what I am trying to say about the law and of faith. We obtain faith when we hear from God and believe that it is of God. Once we hear from God, then we must obey. This is faith in action (works). When we follow our conscience in the little things, and believe that we are subject to a higher power, then eventually we will obtain faith. This is the way that the Old Testament Saints lived their lives. This is not to say that we need to keep all the commandments/laws in order to be saved. If the Holy Spirit does not reveal those things to us, then we are not required to keep them. But if by faith, through the power of the Holy Spirit, we receive instruction to keep the commandments, then we are to do so. And it is not that we have to, but once we begin to experience the beauty of obeying God, then we will have this desire to do so. And if we do not keep the commandments when we should, then our consience (from which the Holy Spirit works) will begin to bother us to the point of repentance, which means that we will keep the commandment as it is revealed to us.

So in other words, our mindset is not “I need to keep the commandments of God”, but rather, I want to follow after God where ever the spirit leads me. And trust me, when you have that mindset, you WILL start to keep the commandments even if you have never even heard about them. This mindset of wanting to follow after God in faith does not allow us to be under the law even if we keep it.

To be under the law means to not have faith (guidance from the Holy Spirit). Every believer starts out under the law. This does not mean that they are cursed or that they are in disobedience to God in any way, because the law acts as a schoolmaster to teach them right from wrong. Then once they begin to obey, and receive the gift of hearing from God directly, then they can come out from under the law and be under the Holy Spirit. This is called moving on to perfection.

Galatians 3:12 is a good verse, but you need to read it in the context of the whole Bible. Verse 13 says “Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us.” The curse of the law was the punishments (death sentences) that went with it during the times of the Israelites. No one today is sentenced to death because they break the commandments. And no one will go to hell if they keep the commandments. Keeping the law will NOT SAVE anyone, and not keeping the law will not prevent anyone to enter in provided they lived according to what was revealed to them. I don’t think that have not once said that we need to keep the whole law in order to be saved. What I have said is that we need to obey what God reveals to us. And trust me, once you start to follow God, instead of the leaders in the church, then God can begin to reveal himself and what he requires from us. Each one of us has a different path that we must walk down. This means that each one of us will have a different set of guidelines (commandments) to follow.

Also I do not understand how you can make a statement, such as that I believe that I can justify myself by overcoming sin, especially when I have repeatedly stated that the only way that it can be done is through the power of the HOly Spirit. If I can ever overcome my conscience sins, it will not be of my own strength, but only through the power of the HOly Spirit, through faith and by the grace of God. Can you tell me how that is self justification?

As for the link, I love debates as it helps you to see points in the belief system that you would otherwise not see. I promise to read it and let you know what I think. I will just need some time.

EmbracingTheTruth Hub Author 6 months ago

Hi, Just to clarify your concern, I do not get offended personally, but I do get frustrated when I try to explain things the best way possible and others don’t understand. But what really bothers me is that when I explain what I believe, you don’t agree (which you don’t have to), but you can’t tell me what it is that is wrong with my interpretation. If you don’t agree with my interpretation, then it is your duty to prove me wrong.

For example, you agree that we should keep a clean conscience, but that there is more to it in order to be saved. Explain to me a situation where you would need to do more than to keep a clean conscience, and how that works.

Another example, You do not believe that we need to keep the commandments. You gave me colossians 2:16 as a proof that we do not need to keep it. When I explained that the verse was referring to the ordinances and not the comandments, you seem to have no argument or any other explanation as to what the verse could mean. Yet you continue in your belief, (which is fine). But in order to do that, you need to be able to explain your take on the ordinances and laws, as well as the statement that Jesus made that he had not come to destroy the law. Your answer needs to address all points without any of the points contradicting one another.

You said “I'm not saying that all has been fulfilled, I haven't really looked into it, but it does seem a possibility that all has been fulfilled, in terms of the context defining 'all'.” Then you go on to say: “I believe I’m not under the law, therefore I don’t see a need to keep it, for instance, I don’t observe the feasts.” You are not sure whether or not all has been fulfilled, but you know that you do not have to keep the law, even though Jesus said that it will not pass until all has been fullfilled.

When you study the old testament, you will discover that the feasts were given as ordinances, statutes or as additional sabbath days. We are no longer to keep those laws because they were nailed to the cross. Colossians 2:14-16. There is a difference between the law (the 10 commandments) and the ceremonial laws, the statutes and ordinances. In order to understand that difference, you have to study the first 5 books of the Old testament.

But explain to me what law you don’t have to keep, and how do you decide which ones to keep and which ones you can throw out? and what scripture can you use to back up your explanation. Remember, your answer needs to be in harmony with the statements of Jesus where He told the disciples “if you love me, keep my commandments, as well as the statement where Jesus says that He did not come to destroy the law, but to fulfill it.” Explain the difference between a law and a commandment, statute or ordinance. Also show me one verse where the 10 commandments are referred to as a statute or as an ordinance.

Read Luke 16:16-17 “The law and the prophets were preached until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it. And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.” Can you explain what these verses mean and how you can fit them into your explanation of keeping the law? According to your understanding, do they not contradict one another?

Just to clarify, I have not once said that we need to keep the law in order to be saved, but rather, we need to keep it as the Holy Spirit directs us and gives us the ability to do so. This means that one person will be inclined to keep the Sabbath, and another will not be. One person might be instructed to keep certain feast days, while another will not be. One person will eat meat and another will not. This is the beauty of being under the Spirit and not under the law. But when you are under the Spirit, the spirit will direct you into keeping the commandments, one at a time as you continue to obey. Not because they will save us, but because they will help us to live a full life.

In regards to my earlier statements: "If I do not overcome my sins, I will die the second death, and so will everyone else who does not overcome sin." and "sins that we know to be sins have to be overcome and eliminated from our lives." I meant exactly what I said and I don’t know how to explain it any clearer. Jesus said go and sin no more.

REad 1John 3. verse 4”Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law” When we are under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, then we will have the knowledge and the power not to sin. (hebrews 4:16)

1 John 3:6 “Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not him, neither known him.”

V. 7-8: Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of devil.”

Please don’t tell me that the above verses are talking about the afterlife. They are meant for the here and now. Jesus came to destroy the works of the devil; not the law.

V. 9: Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: an he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Notice that he Cannot sin. This is because he has the seed (the holy Spirit) who will keep us from sining. It is NOT our power, or doing, but rather it is the work of the spirit.

V 10-11: “In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother. For this is the message that ye have heard from teh beginning, that we should love one another.”

What is love?

1 John 5:3, “By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments”

James 4:17 “Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.”

I cannot define sin for you, and you cannot define sin for me or for any other human being. That is the job of the Holy Spirit. If you think that you can define sin for me, then you are subconsciously living under the law. And if I think that I need to have someone else define sin for me, then I am under the law and not under the Holy Spirit. For that was the purpose of the law, to expose sin. Today, we are not under the law, but under the holy spirit. The law, however, is good in helping new believers to see their sins. But once we are under the guidance of the Holy spirit, then we are held to much higher degrees. This means that the commandments will have no effect on our behaviour or lifestyle, because we are under the Holy Spirit. It is the HOly spirit who will tell us whether we need to keep the sabbath or not, whether we are serving other gods or not, or whether we can eat meat or not, or whether we have the right to be jealous of our neighbor or not and the list goes on and on. Sin is simply when we know to do good and do it not.

You ask: “Do you believe that you need to get to a state where you do not consciously sin (through the power of the Holy Spirit as you put it) to be saved? Also do you believe that the Holy Spirit will force you to no longer sin (if you ever overcome your conscious sins, as you put it) or do you believe that it will partly be your achievement.”

Tell me how you can take this statement from 1 John 3:9 and believe otherwise. “Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.”

To overcome sin will not be a partial achievement, we will either do it, or we won’t. This is why Jesus said, many will seek, but few there be that find. There is no in-between with God.

The Holy Spirit cannot force us to do anything! But rather, the spirit is there to help us, to lead us and to keep us from sinning. when the Holy Spirit calls us, or reveals a sin to us, then we are to obey, which is faith in action. Faith without works is dead. At the same time, it is not our doing, for we cannot respond to (obey) God (or the HOly Spirit) unless we receive the power to do so. So we are not saved by our own works, by overcoming sin, or by anything in us,

EmbracingTheTruth Hub Author 6 months ago

In response to your previous comment:

You do not believe that Deuteronomy 28:58-60 applies to you because you have never experienced what it is like when the plagues or burdens are lifted.

You quote 2 Corinthians 3:6-7 as your proof that we do not need to keep the commandments. YOu use this verse because you do not understand that when you live by the New Testament, which is living under the Holy Spirit, that He will teach you to keep the commandments one by one as each individual is ready for them.

You are right, we are not under the law, but under grace, but you have to understand that grace is the power to overcome sin.

You quote Acts 15:8, where it says that God gave the Holy Spirit. Then you turn around and ask who there is today to give the Holy Spirit. The answer, my friend is right in front of you. God is the ONLY one who can give the Holy Spirit. He gave it to Jesus and He gave it directly to the first disciples. The disciples then were able to pass it on to others by the laying on of hands. I believe that there are very few people today who have the Spirit and are worthy to pass it on. However, that does not mean that God cannot send the Spirit upon people just like He did upon the apostles. If you believe that He can’t, then please back it up with scripture.

You believe that Jesus was born of the Holy Spirit, but that the power of the Holy Spirit only came upon him at baptism. This is wrong. Think about it. We are born of flesh and blood. Take that away and we are nothing. In addition to being born of flesh and blood, Jesus was also born of the Holy Spirit, which made him the son of God. Take that Spirit away, and he would have fallen into sin, and his right to be called the son of God would have been taken away.

Luke 2:40, “And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom: and the grace of God was upon him.” The grace of God is the power to overcome sin, which can only come through the Holy Spirit. That means that Jesus had the Spirit within him the whole time.

Continue reading in Luke 2 and you will find that Jesus knew that He was the son of God. verse 49. Tell me, who revealed that to him if it wasn’t the Holy Spirit.

You use Luke 3:22-23 to state that it was the first time that Jesus received the Spirit. If that is true, how come the Bible states that He was born of the Holy Spirit? Show me one verse that states that the Spirit left Jesus from the time when he was born to the time where He was baptized. The only reason the Spirit came down as a dove, was to show the believers that this truly was the Son of God. It was miracle which God chose to perform at that moment. However, it does in no way indicate that the Spirit was not alive in Jesus previously.

If you believe that Jesus only received the Spirit at water baptism, yet was able to overcome sin prior to that, can you tell me by what power he managed to overcome sin?

You are right, matthew 16:17 does not say that it was the Holy Spirit who made the revelation to Peter. Rather it was God. But tell me, how does God reveal things to man? Through the Bible, which you believe is the ultimate word of God? If that is so, how come the pharisees did not understand who Jesus was? They knew the scriptures better than anyone else.

You said: “I don’t see how not following our conscience is unknown sin. We know we are to keep a clean conscience and to repent of any sins we realize.” To not follow your conscience is known sin. For if your conscience tells you to do something and you don’t do it, then it becomes known sin. but if your conscience does not reveal to you that something is a sin, then it is an unknown sin, which God will not hold you responsible for.

So we agree that we must repent of sins as we realize them to be sins. Repent means to turn away from that sin and never do it again. Yet you do not believe that is possible. You say you believe, but you don’t.

You said: “I don’t see why we would all have a different path to follow and different commandments.” See 1 Corinthians 8:7-13, James 4:17, John 16:8 and Romans 2. The Holy Spirit can only reveal to us what we are ready for. Therefore, we are all at different stages in regards to sin. Very simple.

You ask: “ What about someone that believes in a false god but maintains a clear conscience. What about 2 Thessalonians 2:10, someone who refuses to love the truth, they could still maintain a clear conscience I would think.”

Everyone will be exposed to the truth at one point or another. When that truth is rejected, the Spirit of truth (Holy Spirit) leaves that person alone as he/she wishes. They loved not the truth, and therefore they will be deceived. As for their conscience, they disobeyed it when they rejected the Holy Spirit. Therefore, their conscience is not clear, even though they think it is. They are deceived into thinking they are right before God (have a clear conscience) because they rejected the truth when it was available to them.

You ask: “What about if the Bible says that we are to be baptised but someone is not, they think to keep a clear conscience instead.” Are you telling me that I should mar my conscience and get baptized by an unbeliever? By someone who does not believe in the power of the Holy Spirit? Tell me where the Bible gives such a command. The true baptism that is required of us is the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Water baptism is great when there is someone who has overcome sin and has the power of the Holy Spirit.

1 Peter 3:21 speaks about the baptism of the Holy Spirit. If you believe that it is water baptism please explain the following 2 verses:

1.) Luke 3:16 “John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: HE SHALL BAPTIZE YOU WITH THE HOLY GHOST AND WITH FIRE.”

2.) Ephesians 4:5 “One Lord, One Faith, One Baptism.”

John baptized in water unto repentance. Jesus baptizes with the Holy Spirit and Fire. Yet Ephesians says that there is only one baptism. Which baptism do you think is vital for our salvation. John’s water baptism, or the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Remember, there is only one baptism.

You agree that we should live by the spirit. Can you explain by what power you can live by the Spirit if it isn’t the power OF the Holy Spirit.

You said: “We should express our faith through works which surely naturally follow from our love for God. We should read God’s word to guide our lives and to help us please God.” Can you tell me what those works will be. You quote Galatians5:22-23. Do you believe that those are the works that will follow the believers? Have you forgotten about the works that Jesus said would follow the believers? See Mark 16:17-18. Also, do you not believe that keeping the commandments can be considered as works that will naturally follow?

And just another thing, I know many unbelievers who flat out deny God, yet they have the fruit of the Spirit to a much higher degree than most Christians and other so-called believers that I know of.

Please explain what the works are that must follow. Also explain the following 4 verses:

1.) John 14:15 “If you love me, keep my commandments”

2.) John 15:10 “If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love;”

3.) 1 John 2:4 “He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.”

4.) 2 John 2:6 “And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, THAT AS YE HAVE HEARD FROM THE BEGINNING, YE SHOULD WALK IN IT.”

Tell me what the commandments are that we should follow. Also, what are the commandments from the beginning, are they not the 10 commandments given to us through Moses?

I find it interesting that you believe the mercy of God is available AFTER we sin (which is correct), but you do not believe that we can obtain the grace of God before we sin. Grace is the power to overcome sin so that we do not fall. Hebrews 4:16.

EmbracingTheTruth Hub Author 6 months ago

In regards to the article on the Spirits:

I finally read the article on the spirits of God, and I must say that it is one of the most appalling articles that I have ever read. I totally agree that the breath in us is the spirit of God. I also agree that the power of the Holy Spirit existed in the Old Testament. However, in the Old Testament, the people did not have access to the Holy Spirit continuesly and live under his guidance in the way that we can today. That is why they were given the law.

However, I do not believe that the power of the Holy Spirit has ceased simply because of the many commands that are given that we are to live by that power. When you say that the power has ceased then you are the one who believes in a form of godliness, but without the power. 2 Timothy 3:5

The interpretation of 2 Timothy 3:15-17 is false. The article says that we have no need of further guidance than what can be found in the Bible. If that were true, then why did Jesus promise the disciples a comforter who would come and lead them and guide them into all truths.

John 14:16 “And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;”

John 16:7-15 “Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

And when he is come, he will REPROVE THE WORLD OF SIN, and of righteousness and of judgment:

Of SIN because they believe not on me; of righteousness because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

I have yet MANY THINGS TO SAY UNTO YOU, BUT YE CANNOT BEAR THEM NOW. Howbeit when he, the SPIRIT OF TRUTH, is come, HE WILL GUIDE YOU INTO ALL TRUTH: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and HE WILL SHOW YOU THINGS TO COME.

He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.”

Luke 24:27 “And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.” This is to say that the whole Old Testament was about Jesus. Everything recorded in the book of the prophets was about Jesus and His kingdom.

Yet Jesus said, “I have many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.” This means that the BIble does NOT contain all the information that we can know of God. “The Spirit of Truth, will guide you into all truth” This means that the BIble (including the new and old Testaments) cannot lead us into ALL truths. If you believe that the Bible has that ability, please explain what Jesus meant in the above text.

The Bible (both Old and New Testaments) are good. They can help to bring us under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Notice in verse 15 of 2 timothy 3 it says “which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.” Notice the phrase, “through faith which is in Jesus”. however, the article that you provided me with says that it can come from the Bible. Faith is a gift from God that comes upon us when we begin to obey. It cannot be obtained from the Bible. If you believe that, show me the verse in context. The bible can equip us with the knowledge of sin, so that we can repent, and then obtain those gifts from God directly.

I do not rely on my feelings or experiences in order to know the truth. However, experiences and feelings can help us to see the truth of God. You know that you are being led by the Spirit of Truth (Holy Spirit) when you have peace about what you believe and also when what you believe makes sense to you. You cannot have contradictions in what you believe when you are one with God. 1 Corinthians 14:33 “For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.”

From the article: “"Unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them (Israel in the wilderness): but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it".

Instead of rising up to a complete faith in the power of God's spirit/word which is received, it is far more attractive to take a spiritual short-cut: to reason that a power of righteousness suddenly comes upon us, which will make us acceptable to God, rather than having to experience the pain of consciously bringing our lives into obedience to God's word, and thereby letting God's spirit truly influence our hearts.”

The above text from the article is so true! But you have to understand that faith can only come from God and not from the Bible. And although the power of righteousness came down suddenly on the disciples on the day of Pentacost, it is not usually how it works. The disciples had already walked with Jesus for 3.5 years and had proven themselves to be faithful in many areas of their lives. This power generally comes upon us piece by piece as we learn to obey our conscience through the power of the Holy Spirit.

As for all the scriptures being inspired by God, I believe the overall message is from God, and that there are no contradictions in the message that it provides us with. I know there are people who say that there are errors, which I believe is true. However, those errors could have come as a result of translation.

The article states that the Bible is the word of God, and that there is no other word. If that is true, what will you do with John 1 where it says that Jesus was the Word, and the word became flesh?” How do you align those verses with the explanation of the Bible. If your belief that the Bible is the ultimate word of God were correct, then Hebrews 1:1-2 would state that God speaks to us through the Bible. However, it does not say that. It says that God has spoken to us through Jesus. And Jesus promised the comforter (Holy Spirit) who would lead us until the end.

You can argue that point and say that Jesus gave the gift of the Holy Spirit to the Apostles and that everything that we need to know can be learned through their writings. But their teachings also reiterated what Jesus said that we would be taught by God himself. Hebrews 8:10-11.

The article also says “always the use of this Holy Spirit has been for a specific purpose. When it was accomplished, the gift of the Holy Spirit was withdrawn.” Can you back this up with scripture?

If that statement is true, Please tell me what Jesus meant in Mark 16:17 “And these signs shall follow them that believe....” Jesus never gave a timeline as to when these signs would cease. Using the Old Testament to back up the false claim that the Spirit has been taken is unacceptable, because in the Old Testament times, the people were under the law and not under the Spirit. Today, we are to live under the Spirit, which means that the Spirit does not leave as long as we are in obedience to it. The article quotes Luke 4:18-19 where it speaks about the spirit being on Jesus. Tell me, when did the Spirit leave Jesus? If you can show me that the Spirit ever left Jesus while He was here on earth, then you might have a point. But you won’t find it.

Read Galatians 5:16 “This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.” Please explain to me, what spirit this is talking about if it isn’t the Holy Spirit. Tell me, why are we told to walk in a Spirit so that we will not sin if God is going to take the Spirit away from us. If you believe that of God, then you serve a wicked and evil God whom I want nothing to do with.

You serve a religion that does nothing but turn people away from God. You are denying the power of God that He wants to bestow upon His people. You are the one who is denying the power of God and taking away the hope of righteousness. Your gospel is a feel good gospel, the same as Christianity, which allows one to claim salvation while still living in sin. This is not what Jesus taught, and you will not find such a gospel anywhere in the Bible.

But you have fallen for such a religion beca

EmbracingTheTruth Hub Author 6 months ago

In the parable of the rich man and Lazarus Jesus talks about a gap between the rich man and Abraham and Lazarus. I believe that the same gap is between us and no matter how hard we try to explain ourselves to try to make the other understand, we will not succeed. You cannot reach me with your gospel, and I cannot reach you. Nevertheless, I will try.

In regards to the seed in 1 John 3:9, you got me again. You are right it is the word of God, which is Jesus. But either way, we can no longer sin, and it is not by our own works, but by the power from God, through Jesus or the Holy Spirit, which will not be taken away from us at any time.

I do not have any verse to state that the seed is the Holy Spirit. But if you read 1 John 3:24, it says: “And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.” This verse is saying that if we have Jesus, then we will also have the Holy Spirit. Now I know that you don’t think it is the Holy Spirit, but that is how I understand it. So if you have the seed (word, Jesus) you also have the Spirit.

You say that we can still sin when we have the Holy Spirit. The Bible does not teach that. To sin is to consciously disobey our conscience and follow after the desires of the flesh. Galatians 5:16 says to walk in the spirit and you will not fullfill the desires of the flesh. Also, if you believe that we can still sin consciously while having the Holy Spirit, can you show me a scripture where someone sinned while under the influence of the Spirit. Jesus was tempted, but did not sin because He had the Spirit. If he had not had the Spirit, then he would have sinned.

For you to say that the text states that those born of God are not allowed to sin makes God a dictator. God has given us free will and He does not dictate to us what we can and cannot do. But when you are born of God, you are born of a new spirit which does not want to sin. Therefore, the new nature is to live a pure and holy life, and anyone under the Holy Spirit will have the desire to please God and not sin. That new desire coupled with the power of the Holy Spirit then will enable that individual to live without conscious sin. In other words, it is their own desire together with the Holy Spirit, which will not allow them to sin. Not a rule or a commandment. And as I have said before, to try and not sin, will not be good enough on judgment day. We cannot save ourselves.

You said : “Alternatively he may be saying that those redeemed in the Lord Jesus Christ are forgiveness all their sins so that as long as they are truly in Christ and remain that way, then no sin is held against them so in that way they cannot sin. Any other way of interpreting the verse?” You are right on, but to remain in Christ means to not sin and keep the commandments. I guess that is where we disagree.

You said: “The suggestion is that there were the two specific outpourings but other than that the Holy Spirit was passed on by the laying on of the apostles hands which would mean that around the time of the completed Bible there would no longer be loads of disciples with the Holy Spirit.” I believe this reiterates what Jesus said, “Many will seek, but few there be that find.”

You quoated Acts 2:39 and said “For the promise is unto you, and to your children. this may be a reference to a short term outpouring.” Please read the whole verse. It says:

“For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.” This was the promise to receive the Holy Spirit. It is promised to everyone who repents and follows after Jesus.

How do I know that we can overcome sin only with the Holy Spirit? Because the Bible doesn’t teach that we can obtain any other power to help us. Grace is the power that enables us to overcome sin, but we can only obtain grace through the Holy Spirit. “Walk in the Spirit and ye shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh” That to me tells me that we can overcome sin through the power of the Holy Spirit.

Romans 13:14 says: “But put on the Lord Jesus christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfill the lusts thereof.” Jesus helps us, but when we have him, we also have the Spirit.

Are you asking me to prove that Jesus had the Holy Spirit from birth with Old Testament scriptures? If so, I can’t do that. But it makes sense to me that He would have had the Spirit from birth for several reasons.

1.) he was born through the power of the Holy Spirit, as you put it. This is the same power and the same Spirit that we are born of when we are born again. Are we not? Then after we are born again, we are instructed to go and sin no more. This is exactly what Jesus did. He was tempted, but He never sinned. In the same way, we will be tempted, but through the power of the Holy Spirit we can resist the temptation.

2.) We are told to walk after the Spirit and we will not fulfill the lust of the flesh. This simply means that we will not sin. So if we are given the power to overcome sin through the Spirit, I am assuming that it was the same power that Jesus had from birth. Can you show me from scripture any other power (besides the Holy Spirit) that Jesus had which enabled him to live without sin?

You said: “Jesus overcame sin partly by filling himself with the word of God from the old testament.” The key word here is partly, which means that there was another power that Jesus had which helped him.

You say that there is more to it, such as being prayerful, the right attitude and love. I agree 100%. If we do not have the right attitude then God will not send us the Holy Spirit to further help us.

Just a quick question on love. What is your definition on love. How can we love our neighbor and our enemies, yet cast out an unrepentant brother who has offended us and treat him as a heathen?

You said: “We may all be in different stages with respect to the truth but I'm going to say that that doesn't mean we can ignore parts of Scripture or be saved our own way.” If you believe that why do you quote scripture out of context, or quote half a verse in order to fit your explanation with high hopes that I’ll be too lazy to read the whole thing for myself and fall for half the truth.

I know that I cannot save myself, no matter how hard I try not to sin, it will not save me. Why do you believe that it will save you provided that you have the right attitude and the right amount of love?

You said: “In Romans 14 and 1 Corinthians 8 the one described as weak is the one, if either, trying to follow the law.” I read both chapters and I find no indication of that at all. Can you clarify what you mean?

Hebrews 7:18 “For there is verily a disannulliing of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.” Please read the verse in the context of the whole chapter and you will see that this commandment is referring to the ceremonial laws of the old testament. It refers to the laws on tithing, the priesthood laws and so on. It is not referring to the 10 commandments.

If you believe that it is saying that the 10 commandments are annulled, then you are saying that I can serve other Gods, I can kill, cheat, disobey my parents, envy, commit adultery and still be saved. But I know that you do not believe that we can live that way and be saved, and so I don’t think that you believe that the word commandment in this verse is referring to the 10 commandments either.

The only way that this verse can be tied to the 10 commandments is in regards to the punishment for breaking them. In the Old testament if any of those commandments were broken, the individual was put to death or otherwise severely punished. This punishment was to for-shadow the eternal punishment that would fall upon us if we do not follow after Jesus. The law concerning those punishments have been annulled. Jesus testified to that.

We are not under the law, because when we are under spirit, then we will not only keep the commandments, but we will also keep our minds and hearts pure of any evil that is

EmbracingTheTruth Hub Author 6 months ago

In response to Acts 15. Verse 5 speaks about the law of Moses, which referred to the ceremonial and sacrificial laws, and might also include the 10 commandments. However, the topic at present is circumcision, which was not one of the 10 commandments.

What the passage is saying is that it should never be our primary concern to keep the law. EVER. We are no longer under it, and therefore, we don’t need to preach it and make others bow down to it or else. We can make people aware of those laws, but not that they have to keep them. Once the person comes under the Holy Spirit, he will reveal to them that they should keep the law, and they will want to keep it. Not because they have to, but because they want to.

The Holy Spirit will not reveal all laws to all individuals. One might feel circumcision is necessary and the other not. One will keep the Sabbath, and the other won’t. Our salvation is not based on whether we keep the law, but rather, on whether or not we respond to the truth that has been revealed to us. Trying to keep the laws when they don’t resonate in our hearts and minds becomes a burden. But when the Spirit shows us how we can benefit from them and how it pleases God, then we will keep the laws once we understand why they were given.

It is not our job to tell others what laws they should or shouldn’t keep.

Verses 28-29 are awesome verses and I could go into great detail. But basically my understanding of them is this, if we keep those 4 laws, then we will be able to keep our mind and body clean so that the Holy Spirit will be able to work through us. The verses do not say that, but when you study the whole Bible, not only from a Biblical perspective, but also from a health perspective, it makes perfect sense. It is my interpretation, and my interpretation only, and so I will spare you the details.

EmbracingTheTruth Hub Author 6 months ago

As for the Sabbath, it is blessing from God, and I wouldn't give it up for the world. I know I don't have to keep it, but I enjoy doing so. It is my day of rest when the rest of the world is busy getting ready for their day of worship. That gives me one day, alone with God. I am telling you, God's commandments are not a burden, they are a blessing.

EmbracingTheTruth Hub Author 6 months ago

You ask: “If you believe that people did not have access to the Holy Spirit continuously in the Old Testament times, but that they do now. How are the people of the Old Testament times saved, as you say that someone needs to get to a form of perfection only possible if they have the Holy Spirit?”

That is a very good question, and I am not sure if I have the answer. I always believed that if the people in the Old Testament kept all the commandments that they would be saved. Keeping the commandments does not make us perfect, as it still allows us to have hatred in our hearts, or to commit other sins of the mind that are not listed in the 10 commandments. The people couldn’t do any better, and therefore, will not be held accountable for what was not given to them. we are held to a much higher degree than the people in the Old Testament. Jesus told the disciples that unless they were more righteous than the pharisees that they would not enter in. This type of righteousness can only come through the Spirit.

You said: “Romans 10:17 “So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.” There is nothing to say that we need to possess more than just the Bible to obtain faith. This doesn't mean that faith isn’t from God.”

Romans 10:17 is a beautiful verse! But in order to understand it we need to read it in context. Start reading in verse 13 and read all the way through to 21. The context of the passage is this: the gospel has gone forth, every one has heard, but most of them are disobedient. In other words, a preacher cannot make someone to believe or obtain faith.

Read verse 17 carefully. It says “So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”

Faith is to hear from God, believe that it is of God and then be obedient to it.

Didn’t we agree earlier that Jesus was the word God. Once we have Jesus, then we also have the Holy Spirit, who will lead us and guide us into all truths.

We can hear the preaching of men all day, but it will not bring us faith. We can read bible all day, but it will not bring us faith. Faith can only come by hearing the word of God, which is the message of Jesus that is throughout the Bible. The true hearing, however, can only occur through the power of the Holy Spirit. I don’t see how you can explain it any other way.

I do not believe that when you have the Holy Spirit that as a result you wander away from truth. I believe you have to first reject the Spirit in order to so, because if you have the Spirit then you won’t be able to. It’s like jumping off a cliff, if you are suicidal, you will not hesitate to jump. But if you love life, then you won’t be able to jump. Same thing with the Spirit, if you have it, then you won’t sin, but if you don’t, then you won’t hesitate to.

I do not know of any other book, other than the BIble, that has been given to us from God. At the same time, however, I have not read all the books in the world, and therefore do not know whether there are other inspired books or not. I do not believe that God would withold information from one group of people just because the Bible has not yet been translated into their language.

Can you describe to me what God’s charactistics are and how we should display them?

EmbracingTheTruth Hub Author 6 months ago

for some reason one of my earlier comments didn’t post properly. Here is the rest of what didn’t get posted. I apologize for the mix-up.

Hebrews 7:18 “For there is verily a disannulliing of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.” Please read the verse in the context of the whole chapter and you will see that this commandment is referring to the ceremonial laws of the old testament. It refers to the laws on tithing, the priesthood laws and so on. It is not referring to the 10 commandments.

If you believe that it is saying that the 10 commandments are annulled, then you are saying that I can serve other Gods, I can kill, cheat, disobey my parents, envy, commit adultery and still be saved. But I know that you do not believe that we can live that way and be saved, and so I don’t think that you believe that the word commandment in this verse is referring to the 10 commandments either.

The only way that this verse can be tied to the 10 commandments is in regards to the punishment for breaking them. In the Old testament if any of those commandments were broken, the individual was put to death or otherwise severely punished. This punishment was to for-shadow the eternal punishment that would fall upon us if we do not follow after Jesus. The law concerning those punishments have been annulled. Jesus testified to that.

We are not under the law, because when we are under spirit, then we will not only keep the commandments, but we will also keep our minds and hearts pure of any evil that is not even listed as part of the law or commandments. Do you see how we are held to a much higher degree than to just keep the commandments? Keeping them will not save us. Not keeping them will not condemn us. But when we are under the Spirit, then we will automatically start to keep them. A chronic liar will stop telling lies whether he or she knows about the commandment or not because the Holy Spirit will reveal that sin to him or her. A murderer does not have to hear about the commandment not to kill, because the Holy Spirit will reveal that to him once he is ready. Don’t you see how it ties together?

You said it yourself, that we should not ignore scripture. So please tell me what commandments Jesus did not come to destroy, and what commandments we were instructed to keep.

I do not believe that we have to keep the whole law. But we need to keep the commandments and the laws as the Spirit reveals them to us. I for one, don’t eat any of the animals that were forbidden to the israelites because the spirit in me won’t let me. Doing so will not save us, but it will make our lives easier. Keeping the commandments is not a burden, but a blessing.

I believe that the Holy Spirit visits each individual at one point in their lifetime in the attempt to bring that individual to God. God is not an unjust God who sends people to hell without making himself, or trying to make himself known to them. Every individual who enters into the second death will have been exposed to the truth at one point or another, yet rejected it. This goes for all babies, unborn, the mentally challenged and so on. Not one individual will have the excuse of “I didn’t know any better.” God has not left this type of truth in the hands of mankind or religions, rather, it is the job of the Holy Spirit. I have already quoted the verse earlier that says it is the job of the Holy Spirit to convict the world of sin.

I know that you think that a little baby or a young child does not have the brain capacity to decide what is right, but you would be surprised at how well they can reason with their minds. No they cannot reason and understand what we can understand, but they have the capacity to understand little truths, and if they reject those little truths, then God will reject them as well. God is not a respector of persons, children or babies.

You know, I would be satisfied to receive the baptism from someone who would at least be open to the truth, even if he had not yet overcome. Church leaders today are not open to the truth. They have their own rules, or traditions as Jesus put it, and I have no interest in serving man-made rules. Show me one verse where the command to baptize was given to unbelievers.

You say the prophecy of baptizing with fire and the holy spirit was fullfilled at pentecost, but I say that is when it began.

You said: “The one baptism is being baptised into the Lord Jesus.” I agree. But can water baptism do this for you? or is it the baptism of the Holy Spirit? You see, when you have Jesus, you also have the Spirit. So which one is it?

You said: “In 1 Peter 3:21 it doesn't make sense to me that being baptised in the Holy Spirit would remove dirt from you.” What kind of dirt are you talking about? I don’t think it is talking about mud that you pick up outside and track across the clean floor. The dirt refers to sin, the lust of the flesh. The baptism of the Holy Spirit aligns perfectly with that verse...walk in the spirit and ye shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. Also have you read in the old Testament that we will be purified with fire? This is the baptism of the HOly Spirit.

You said: “The works we show are works following from our love for God and trying to obey Him. For example charity (with the right motives as a cheerful giver).” Tell me what is love? See 1 JOhn 5:3

I have not been gifted with the works of the Holy Spirit, but that is because I still have too much sin in my life. Nor have i ever witnessed another possess those works for the same reason.

You said: “Yeah keeping commandments is a way of showing 'works', that doesn't mean we need to keep the whole law in the old testament.” You are absolutely right!

You asked: “Do you believe that people who deny God all their lives, (dying in that state) may be saved?” If the person at the last moment receives the truth then he or she will be saved. Otherwise no. But we cannot know when the Spirit will knock on their door, and therfore, we cannot judge the dead.

You said: “For 2 John 1:6 see 1 John 2:7-8 There is nothing to say that the word which they’d heard was the 10 commandments. And 2 Corinthians 3:7 what about this?” I will not answer because you have not answered my questions, which were based on the following verses:

1.) John 14:15 “If you love me, keep my commandments”

2.) John 15:10 “If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love;”

3.) 1 John 2:4 “He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.”

4.) 2 John 2:6 “And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, THAT AS YE HAVE HEARD FROM THE BEGINNING, YE SHOULD WALK IN IT.”

My questions were, what commandments Jesus and the apostle John wanted us to keep, and what the commandments were from the beginning. In addition, how do we pick and choose what commandments we should keep?

EmbracingTheTruth Hub Author 6 months ago

In response to your last comment:

In order to understand the Bible, we have to read the whole thing. We cannot take a verse here and there in order to construct a false doctrine. Hebrews 10:14 seems to imply that we are perfected through the sacrifice of Jesus. Although that is true, there is much more to it. You cannot preach half a gospel and think that you have the truth.

Verses 15-16: Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;”

Then verse 17 says: “and their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.”

The above passage fits perfectly with the belief that we must overcome sin by the help of the Holy Spirit. First, Jesus died and rose again to free us from sin. Then it talks about the Holy Spirit, who will come and be our witness. The Holy Spirit will also convict us of sin. Then the next verse says that God will write his laws on our hearts and minds. Once we obey those laws that He writes upon our conscience, then we have repented, and thus He can forgive us our sins and remember them no more.

Please tell me, what are the laws that God will write upon our hearts and minds? What are the commandments that Jesus told His disciples to keep. What are the commandments that other writers of the New Testament instruct us to keep.

As for Romans 7:24-25, I have already given my explanation on it. You are using those verses to justify your sins, but that is not what those verses are intended for. You have to read it in context with the beginning of the next chapter and with other passages. Paul simply states the truth, if you follow your mind, you can follow after God, but if you follow after the flesh then you will sin. That is a fact! But, we are commanded NOT to walk after the flesh, but rather after the Spirit. Furthermore, we are PROMISED that if we walk after the Spirit, that we will not sin. You cannot ignore those truths.

As for 1 Corinthians 15, I have not said that we will be perfect on this side of heaven. Perfection, overcoming sin and keeping the commandments are different things.

What scripture is there to say that one cannot be tempted if he/she has the Holy Spirit.

In regards to What is Love? You quote 1 John 4:10, as if to refute my belief that love is to keep the commandments. However, the verse aligns perfectly because when Jesus came down to earth to die for our sins, He obeyed the commandment of God. He said it many times that He was here not on His commands, but on the commands of the Father. I don’t know how you can ignore that.

You said: “It seems to me that no more signs are done by believers having the Holy Spirit gift, why is this?” I have already answered this and that is that we are too sinful to receive those gifts. If believers would strive to overcome the sin in their lives, then eventually those gifts would come down on them. If you don’t believe that you can overcome sin, then you are not a believer. It might seem as though there are none who possess those gifts, but there are a few such believers scattered around the globe.

In regards to Ephesians 4:30, “And grieve not the Holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.” If we have the Holy Spirit, he will keep us from sinning throughout our lives so that we will stand on judgment day.

Hebrews 6:4-6: “For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.”

This passage is speaking about a group of people such as a church. Once a church has lost its light, which the majority of churches have, it is impossible to bring them back to God again.

Hebrews 6:7-8 “For the earth which drinketh in the rain that commeth oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God: But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is night unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.”

This, I believe is referring to the Holy Spirit. When we receive and follow the guidance of the Holy Spirit, then we will receive blessings from God. These are blessings, such as better health, a greater understanding, the Gifts of the Spirit and many others. But when we fail to follow the instructions of the Spirit (do not keep the commands that the Spirit directs us to keep) then we will live in sin, (bring forth thorns and briers) and be rejected.

How can I put Hebrews 6:4-8 and Ephesians 4:30 together? Simple. When we have the desire to follow after the Spirit, then He will keep us safe. However, when we reject the Spirit, which we clearly have the ability to do, then risk being rejected as well.

As for 1 Peter 3:21, I believe I answered it in my previous post.

EmbracingTheTruth Hub Author 6 months ago

Obviously you and I have a different way of interpreting the scriptures. I like to take the whole Bible into account when I decipher the meaning of a verse. whereas you seem to pick and choose your favorite verses that support your doctrine. An approach like that allows you to create any type of false doctrine that you want, which is why there are so many different religions who claim to believe the Bible.

My interpretation of 1 Peter 3:21 remains the same. “The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us” This is the baptism of the Holy Spirit because water baptism cannot save anyone. When we are baptized in the name of Jesus, then we will receive the Holy Spirit to lead us away from sin, and enable us to live by faith.

If Noah had strictly relied on the water to save him and his family, he would have been doomed because there would not have been the ark to keep him afloat. He had to act in faith and build the ark for himself and the animals. You could almost say, that he received the baptism of the Holy Spirit, which enabled him to walk in faith, prior to being baptized in water.

“(not putting away the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,)” Baptism symbolizes washing. But the baptism that saves us is not one that will remove the filth of the flesh. This is trying to be saved by works or by making ourselves look good infront of others. But rather, the baptism that saves us now is one that purifies the mind.

We are not saved by putting away the filth of the flesh, but rather by a good conscience toward God. This means that we can live perfect lives, but that will not save us. We can keep all the commandments, but that will not save us. Only when we have a clear conscience toward God, then we can know that we are saved. And in order to have a clear conscience, we must live in accordance to what God reveals to us through the Holy Spirit. This means that we have to overcome sin as we become aware of them. I don’t know about you, but my conscience bothers me when I commit the same sins over and over again.

What Peter is essentially saying is that even though you might appear to live a righteous life in front of others, it does not mean that you are saved if your conscience is not clear towards God. To have a clear conscience towards God does not mean that you have to keep all the laws and commandments, but rather, those that the Spirit reveals to you.

Sorry for the repetition, but I don’t know how to make you understand that.

Can you list God’s commands to us including the commands that Jesus gave us?

In regards to Romans 7:25 “But with my flesh I serve the law of sin”. It is the absolute truth. Our flesh will always lean towards sin, but we must overcome our flesh. Paul simply stated a fact. But he did NOT okay that we walk after our flesh. If you believe that he did, then show me the verse that okays sin and walking after the flesh. I can show you tons of verses that condemn those who walk after the flesh, and many verses that strictly command us NOT to walk after the flesh.

As I have already mentioned before, if you read a little further into Romans 8:1, you will see that Paul says “There is now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.”

If you were to reverse this verse it would say something like this: There is condemnation to them which are not in Christ Jesus, who walk after the flesh, but not after the Spirit.

Do you see that? Paul NEVER okayed for us to walk after the flesh. When we do, then we are condemned. We have to overcome the flesh, there is no other way around it.

I agree with you that there is forgiveness when we fail, otherwise there would be no hope for humanity.

So what commandments are we to keep in order to demonstrate love to the next person?

In regards to your last question, I have no plans and will make no efforts in order to obtain perfection (a clear conscience) other than to follow the leading of the Spirit. That is all that I can do, and as Paul (I think it was him) said, not by my own strength. And the Spirit will not reveal all my sins to me today, because that would be overwhelming for me. Therefore, I must wait upon the Lord for my salvation.

EmbracingTheTruth Hub Author 6 months ago

It is perfectly okay to use verses in order to prove a point. But it is not okay to take them out of context in order to support a false religion.

I never said water baptism has no meaning to it. It has its place when done correctly.

Tell me, do you think that Noah would have been saved in the flood if he hadn’t obeyed God and built the ark?

You asked “I thought you believed that someone could get the Holy Spirit and then get to a state of perfection?” This is what I believe because the Bible commands it. But this perfection does not mean that we will ever stop sinning completely. It means that we will stop doing those sins that we are aware of. For example, if a believer stops committing all the sins that he or she is aware of, then he or she is living in a perfect state of mind towards God. However, if that person still continues to eat heavily proccessed foods, he or she is sinning against God, but not against their conscience. This means the person is still living with a clear conscience towards God and will not be condemned.

Psalm 103:12. I have never said that God couldn’t forgive sins. As for 1 collossians, not sure what Bible you are reading, but mine doesn’t have it.

You asked “Also don’t you think it’s your duty to search the scriptures and find out how to live rather than waiting for sins to be revealed.” Absolutely! Searching the scriptures is the best way to get to know God when you don’t have the Spirit close to you as it helps to draw you closer to God so that you can learn from him directly. Tell me, what does the Bible say about smoking cigarettes and pot? Is there any verses in the Bible that approve or disaprove of that? If there isn’t, how can we be certain on whether it is right or wrong? Or how about this, How does a preacher know that it is his calling to minister to others? How does a preacher know when to serve overseas and when to serve his own community? Does the Bible cover these things and list the names of these preachers who will minister in foreign countries? Of course not! so how do they know where to serve? If they are truly serving God, then the Holy Spirit directs their path.

The Bible remains silent in regards to our daily living, and therefore, we cannot solely rely on it, but we need the Spirit to guide us. I can tell you right now, that if you want to rely on the Bibly for daily guidance and salvation, then you are doomed.

You asked: “You say that you are waiting for the Holy Spirit to lead you to perfection but you also say that you do not have the Holy Spirit because you are not perfect?” The Holy Spirit can work with you if you are living in sin, but it cannot come in and indwell you all the time. I have tried to explain this, but I don’t know how to. It is something that you have to experience for yourself in order to understand it.

Just a quick reply on some of the commandments that you follow. I find it strange that you don’t believe that you should keep the 10 commandments, but yet, you should keep the 53 that are listed. I challenge you to take out a list of the 10 commandments, and then go over the 53 commands on the list and see if you can’t put a check-mark beside each of the 10 commandments. You will find that they cover all the commandments, including the Seventh-Day-Sabbath. Let me prove it to you.

#21 “Love the Lord thy God with all thy heart” God kept the Sabbath since the beginning, and so did His people including Abraham, who was before the 10 commandments were given. If we truly love God, then we will continue to honor Him in this command when the Spirit prompts us to do so.

#25 “Take Christ for an example and follow in his steps” Beautiful! Beautiful! Beautiful! Tell me, did Jesus keep the Sabbath? Then why don’t you? If you don’t want to keep the Sabbath, then you need to eliminate commandment #25 from that list.

EmbracingTheTruth Hub Author 6 months ago

I have already explained what I believe about water baptism in my earlier posts. It is to be carried out by true believers who believe in the power of the Holy Spirit. Go back and read my earlier posts.

You didn’t answer my question in regards to 1 Peter 3:21. You think you are reading it in context, but you have to read it in context with the rest of the Bible as well. And the rest of the Bible will tell you that Noah could not have been saved by that water unless he had received faith from God, instruction to build the ark and obeyed those commands.

Water baptism alone will NOT save you or anyone else on the planet.

So I can make my decision prayerfully by what I read in the Bible. The Bible isn’t going to tell me whether I should go left or right. That guidance can only come from God, and you don’t need a Bible, although it is good to have one. There are many people in the world who do not have a Bible and you are basically condemning them to hell, because that is the nature of your God. But that is not the nature of my God. ALL have a fair chance at eternal life. God is not a respecter of persons.

Faith are the instructions given to us by God, for us to obey. When we have faith, then we can know that everything will turn out for us. Therefore, to be justified by faith, means that we have heard from God and obeyed. When God tells us to overcome sin, then we must do so by faith. And the only way that we can do that is by the help of the Holy Spirit. Read Your Bible.

To cooporate with the Holy Spirit is no more of a work than to read the Bible prayerfully and make YOUR decision from there. As a matter of fact, what were the desciples doing on the day of Pentecost? Did they read the scriptures while they were in the upper room, or were they waiting for the Spirit to come? Does Isaiah not say “They that wait upon the Lord, shall renew their strength” How will you interpret those passages in light of what you are accusing me of? How can you then say that I am trying to get saved by works? If faith without works is dead, then what kind of works are we to have? Tell me where the BIble forbids us to wait on the Spirit.

And you think that you have the freedom to choose God. Boy oh boy, you are so wrong! Jesus said to his desciples in John 15:16 “Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you.” The only choice that you have in the matter is to respond when the Spirit calls to you. That means that you have to obey the commandments of God.

You said: “The Lord Jesus led a life perfect in regards to the law so that we don’t have to. We are saved in Gods’ mercy through faith.” I cannot believe that you said that, or that you actually believe that. I have asked you before and you have not answered, so I will ask again. What did Jesus mean, when He said that He did not come to do away with the Law? Also, what does it mean “The law is our schoolmaster?” How can you just totally disregard the whole Old Testament? Do you know that one of the commandments of Jesus to His disciples was to search the scriptures, by which He meant the Old Testament, which contained the commandments. He said for in them ye think you have eternal life. He told them to search the Scriptures, but at the same time He also let them know that doing so would not save them.

Also when the rich young ruler came to him, asking what he should do to be saved, Jesus answered and said “to keep the commandments” The ruler then asked what commandments, and Jesus quoted many of the 10 commandments. He didn’t mention the Sabbath, but He kept the Sabbath. Ever heard the phrase: “Actions speak louder than words?”

I cannot tell you to keep the commandments, but I guarantee that once the Spirit starts working in you, He will reveal those things to you, one by one.

EmbracingTheTruth Hub Author 6 months ago

From your last comment: “About water baptism you said “it serves a purpose in making a commitment to God and by witnessing to others around.” Don’t you believe that you can be baptised in the Holy Spirit, surely that would mean that your life is committed to God, therefore does that mean you believe that baptism is only to witness to those around you?”

I am not sure I understand your question. I don’t fully understand all the reasons why people engage in water baptism. But most do it to fit into a social group, to join the church or to clear their conscience because mr. preacher man has told them that if they don’t get dunked, then they’ll burn for all eternity. But from a Biblical perspective, what I can find on water baptism is that it serves no other purpose than to show outwardly that you want to follow after God. The Bible uses the water baptism of the Old Testament to foreshadow the life-saving ability of the baptism of the Holy Spirit. In the O.T. the people were in a sense literally saved by water (when they acted on faith), but in the New Testament we see that we can only be saved by the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

When you get baptized in water, it does not mean that you have the baptism of the Holy Spirit. The New Testament makes that very clear. The Spirit baptism does not occur when we want it to, but when God decides that we are ready for it. Once you are baptized with the Holy Spirit, then your life becomes the witness, the living testimony that we are to have to those around us. It is the baptism of the Holy Spirit that saves you.

You are right, the Bible does not refer to water baptism or spirit baptism. So then how do we know which baptism the writers are referring to? John said “There cometh one after me, He will baptize you with Fire and the Holy Spirit.” Another verse in the N.T. says that there is only 1 baptism. So when the Bible speaks about the baptism that we are to have in order to be saved, which one do you suppose it is speaking of?

Take a look at this verse. Mark 16:16 “He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.” Why didn’t Jesus say “but he that believeth not and is not baptized shall be damned?” The reason he didn’t bother repeating the word baptism is because when you truly believe as you should, then you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit. But if you don’t believe, you can’t get that baptism and therefore will be damned. If you believe that Jesus was talking about water baptism, then please explain your view.

If you want to believe that the Bible is God’s ultimate word of guidance to you, then by all means feel free to believe that. But you can see throughout the ENTIRE O.T. how God communicated with His people and gave them specific instructions as to how to live their daily lives. He told Abraham when to leave his home and move to another country. He told Moses exactly when to go and talk to Pharaoh; he told him what to say and everything. Every great Prophet in the Old Testament received specific instructions as to what they were to do and say.

Who wrote Psalm 119:105? Was it not King David? Tell me, did David read it in the scriptures (TheWord of God) that he would be able to kill that lion, or that He would be able to win Goliath? Of course not. Then what was he referring to as the Word of God if it wasn’t the scriptures?

But you say the BIble is complete and that we don’t need any further guidance. However, the I don’t think the Bible can lead me as to where I should spend my next 10 years. It cannot give me specific instructions as to how I can fight my own battles as God gave to the Israelites.

I am not denying the power of the Bible. I believe it is a great book in helping us to learn from God. It helps us to see how God works and operates, how he leads and guides his people and gives the basic instructions on salvation. And from reading it you can see that God has direct communications with His people. In the Old Testament that communication was through prophets, today it is through the Holy Spirit. As powerful as the Bible is, reading it will not save anyone (not even if you do it prayerfully) . It does not have the power to do so (Just look at the pharisees). That is the work of the Holy Spirit, which you are denying. The BIble warns us against people like you, who believe in a form of religion, but without the power. You believe in the power of the Bible, but you deny the power of the Spirit.

You asked: “Where does the Bible say we must get to a state where we are never aware that we fail God to be saved, and that this can only be achieved by having the Holy Spirit gift?” I think I know what you are asking here, but let me just clarify. If I was to get to a state where I was never aware that I failed God, then I would be condemned, because my conscience would be so marred that it would no longer let me know of my sins.

I know that I will sin until the day I die. But I do not know what those sins are, because life is too short for the spirit to reveal them all to me. Therefore, I will never reach that state where I am never aware that I fail God. But I must overcome the sins that are revealed to me through the HOly Spirit. This does not mean that I will ever reach that state where I am not aware that I am sinning. It means that when I know it is wrong to eat processed foods, that I will never eat them again. It means that when I become aware of the verse that says not to associate with those who deny the power of God, that I will not associate with them anymore.

Jesus said to go and sin no more. He told his disciples, “be ye perfect as your heavenly father is perfect.” he also said taht he would send the Holy Spirit to convict the world of sin. He did not say “I will write you a book, called the Bible, and it will convict you of sin.” he said I will send you the Spirit. He did not say “The Bible will lead you and guide you and teach you.” He said He would send the Spirit. He did not say, “Read the Bible so that you walk not after the flesh.” The Bible says to walk after the Spirit so that we do not walk after the flesh. If you want more on this, go back and read my previous comments because I have covered what I believe.

First you condemn me for waiting on the Lord, and then when I back my actions up with scripture you turn around and okay it. To clarify, I am NOT trying to obtain the gifts of the Holy Spirit. All I want to do is follow the Spirit where it leads me and obey it. That is all. And if I don’t hear from the Spirit, then I will remain put. I am not trying to do anything by works.

The Holy Spirit has not left my side because I learn from Him on a regular basis. Have I been baptized with the Holy Spirit, I don’t think so. But that don’t mean that I cannot learn from Him and follow Him.

Why haven’t I reached perfection? Why hadn’t Paul reached it when he wrote Phillipians 3:12-15?

V12) Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, it that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

V13) Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting the things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,

V14) I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

V15) Let us therefore, an many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you. ((I am sure that your bible says that the BIBLE will reveal those things to us, but mine says it is God. and the way God does that is through the HOly Spirit. Just read the words of Jesus. He said it loud and clear))

Why did Paul go off for 3 years before he started preaching? Why did Moses have to spend 40 years in the wilderness before God could use him? Why did God keep Joseph locked up in prison before He could use him? And what about Samuel, why was he brought to the temple to learn of God from such an early age? Why was David called a ‘man after God’s own heart’? Was it because he was the king of Israel, or was it because he s

EmbracingTheTruth Hub Author 6 months ago

Thanks for letting me know about the comment being cut off again. I guess I just have too much to say when it comes to religion.

So here is the rest of it:

Why did Paul go off for 3 years before he started preaching? Why did Moses have to spend 40 years in the wilderness before God could use him? Why did God keep Joseph locked up in prison before He could use him? And what about Samuel, why was he brought to the temple to learn of God from such an early age? Why was David called a ‘man after God’s own heart’? Was it because he was the king of Israel, or was it because he spent his childhood years out in the fields, alone with God and singing praises to Him?

Why did God promise a son to Abraham and then wait until Abraham was old before He delivered the promise?

Why does God take so long to work with His people before He can use them?

You probably don’t have the answers to those questions because the Bible doesn’t say why. At least I have not found them. But I do know why God waits because the Spirit has revealed it to me. We don’t operate on our timing, but on God’s timing. and God’s timing is perfect. You want to judge me, go for it! I don’t give a hoot concerning your opinion of me.

You ask: “Where does the Bible tell us to wait for the Holy Spirit gift and then be saved?” I have already answered this. If you are not baptized with the Spirit, then you cannot be saved. The words of Jesus. The O.t. They that wait upon the Lord, shall renew their strength. The disciples waited for the Spirit to come to them. Just add those verses together.

As for the gifts, not everyone will possess the same gifts. Each member of the body has a different function, and therefore, will possess different gifts. See 1 Corinthians 12. Also, one is given 1 talent, while another is given 5 talents. This means that one might be able to overcome the demons within oneself, while another will be able to cast out demons. I could go on, but you get the picture.

Mark 16:15-18. This verse seems to say that when we have the Holy Spirit that we will possess all those gifts of the Spirit. That is what I believed at first. But when you align that verse with 1 Corinthians 12 you can clearly see that not all those gifts will come upon each individual. It makes sense, because Jesus did not use the term “you”, but “they”. It also aligns with the parable of the talents.

You don’t believe that we can have the Holy Spirit today. Read 1 Corinthians 12:3 “And that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.” Please interpret that verse for me if it doesn’t mean exactly what it says. If you or I don’t have the Holy Spirit, then we are lost. As lost as lost can be.

You asked: “Why do you think you’ve had it and then it left, this doesn’t seem to be the experience of those in Acts, and if you’ve had the Holy Spirit then why didn’t you reach that state of perfection, which isn’t perfection as you believe you can still sin unknowingly.” I have already told you that I am not sure where I stand on this. I don’t know if I have been baptized with the Spirit, but I do know that He is working in my life and leading me in the right direction. I don’t know if there is a difference or if they are the same, but that is irrelevant for me right now, because God gives you each day what you need. Maybe I have the Spirit, maybe I don’t, but I am not going to deny.

We both know that Paul had the Spirit, yet he said that He had not reached perfection. He was a young follower of Christ, just like me. and it takes time for us to overcome sin. Paul said that He was one of the worst sinners ever. But if he could have foreseen the sinful culture that we have grown up in, he might have said something else. Unlike Paul, most of us have never murdered anyone, but we have been raised in such perversion, our eyes are so blinded that we cannot see how wicked we are. Paul could see his wickedness to the depth, but our eyes are way too blinded to see ours. And to give the gifts of the Holy Spirit to someone so engrossed in sin is not how God operates. This does not mean that we are condemned, because if we are blinded to the truth, then God will not hold us accountable. But when we are given a talent, when we have seen a glimpse of the truth, then we are to act on that. This is faith in action, not trying to get saved by works.

First you said “I’m not saying we shouldn’t wait upon the Lord.” then in the next paragraph you said “I’m going to say that the gospel message is not that we should wait, hoping that the Holy Spirit gift may come upon us nor that we should try to reach a state of perfection in order to obtain the Holy Spirit gift.” Which one is it?

You are right, the law WAS our schoolmaster. But tell me, when did Paul come to Jesus, was it before or after the Holy Spirit had been poured out? I think that we can both agree that it was after. So even then, after the new covenant had already been established, Paul still needed the law to bring him closer to God. Read Galatians 3:23. “Before faith came, we were kept under the law” We have to obey the law in order to receive further instructions from God (before we receive faith in order for us to come out from under the law). There is no other way around it.

I think you tried to answer my question in regards to Jesus not coming to destroy the law, but you beat around the bush. You have not provided any solid evidence as to how your interpretation aligns with what you believe that we don’t need to keep the 10 commandments. You say that we don’t need to keep the commandments, but yet, you say that we should keep those that are commanded to us, which I take as being the 53 in that article that you linked to. You don’t believe that you need to have a law or commandments, yet you have created your own list, from the Bible of course, but only the ones that you and your religious leaders value. There are many commands of Jesus that are very important, yet they are not a part of that list. What gives you or anyone else the right to pick and choose, especially for someone else, which commandments are important and which ones are not.

Your leaders, or perhaps you are a leader yourself, have tried taken on the job of the Holy Spirit in trying to tell others what commands they should keep. Perhaps that is why you deny the power of the Holy Spirit and that it exists today.

EmbracingTheTruth Hub Author 6 months ago

In response to your last comment:

You asked: “Have you seen tongues of fire come down and rest on you or anyone else in keeping with Matthew 3:11 and Acts 2?” No I have not, and neither did any of the disciples afterwards. Yet many people were baptized with the Holy Spirit. Basically every time someone was baptized in water, they received the Holy Spirit. This is not happening today because people are denying the power of God. However, if someone would receive the Holy Spirit they would also receive the tongues of fire, not in a physical form, but they would have a new authority when they speak.

So when we are baptized into Jesus, then we have the Holy Spirit.

You are using 1 Corinthians 13:8-12 in order to say that there are no new prophecies and that there is no speaking in tongues now. Does that mean that knowledge has vanished as well? The verse reads as follows:

“Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be KNOWLEDGE, it shall Vanish away.”

Verse 9: “For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. 10) But when that which is perfect, is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.”

You say that “that which is perfect” is the Bible. Fair enough that particular verse doesn’t say what it is or when it will come. But verse 12 does:

12: “For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then FACE to FACE: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.”

According to the context, the gift of prophecy, tongues and the knowledge we have today will only end when Jesus returns the second time, when we meet him face to face.

Paul said it himself, “he only knew in part”. That means that the Bible, which you believe to be the word of God, is not complete.

I have given you plenty of verses to back up my belief that we can abstain from sin when we follow after the spirit.

I don’t think that we can stop sinning immediately, but the sins that I became aware of this year better get cleaned up within the next few years. You say that you don’t “have so much confidence in yourself.” That is why you need the Holy Spirit. We ourselves can do nothing without him.

You said: “I’m still confused as to how you believe that someone gets the Holy Spirit gift as you agree that Paul wasn’t perfect although he had the gift.” LIke I said I don’t understand it myself. But we know that Paul had the gifts of the Holy Spirit and he said it himself that he wasn’t perfect. Those are the facts whether we understand them or not.

No need to apologize. I am sure that I have many incorrect views but so do you. You are building your beliefs on what you think to be true, which tells me that your views of the Bible are handed down to you by other men. You don’t fully understand what you believe to be factual, yet you continue to believe it because someone in your circle explained it to you like that. I guarantee that if you were to isolate yourself from that group and start reading the Bible without their influence that you would come away with a whole new perspective. But you have to love the truth more than your friends.

EmbracingTheTruth Hub Author 6 months ago

"When I was a child I spake as a child but when I became a man I put away childish things" Paul is using that as an example to show us how little we know today compared to what we will know when we see Jesus. The prophecies and the knowledge that we have today will become irrelevant on that day.

Just because we don't fully understand something does not mean that it is not true.

God told Abraham that he would have a son. That was a fact and Abraham believed it even though he couldn't understand that it was through Sarah.

I am sure that when God told Noah to build an ark that Noah didn't fully understand what would happen.

Jesus desciples knew that He was their savior, yet they couldn't understand it Jesus when He talked about the cross. Jesus told them very plainly that he would die and rise again, yet they couldn't understand it until it happened.

It is the very same with us today. Jesus said to "go and sin no more." "Walk after the Spirit and you will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh." Those are facts and I choose to believe them and that it is possible to live without conscious sin. I have not yet fully experienced those things, but I have seen a glimpse and will not give up even though I don't fully understand it, and neither should you.

EmbracingTheTruth Hub Author 5 months ago

I really don’t know what to say except that there really is no point in arguing with you any longer. I do not believe in your God, and you do not believe in mine, and neither do you believe in the Bible. You say you do, but you don’t. And you cannot change what I believe and I do not wish to change what you believe. I believe that I made myself clear on that at the beginning.

You say that you are waiting on the Lord, but not to be baptized with fire and the Holy Ghost. So what are you waiting on him for? To come back and make everything rosy? Do you know that everything will not be all rosy when He comes back? And that ALL the nations of the earth will mourn, including you and me, no matter what side we are on. If we are not baptized (washed) in the cleansing fire of God on this side, then it will destroy us on the other side. You can bet your bottom dollar on that. Just read the Bible and you will find it if you are looking for the truth.

The difference between someone with the Spirit and someone who doesn’t have the Spirit, is that one is led by the Spirit and the other is led by the systems of the world, including religious systems. Did you know that there will be people in heaven who never heard of Jesus or were aware that they had served him? These will be people who had the Spirit within them to guide them, but were unaware of it. See the parables of Jesus.

You say that you belong to a group who “strives for the teaching of the Bible”, but really you don’t believe that, because the Bible says that the day will come when no man will teach his neighbor. That day has come and you cannot convert me to your religion, no matter how many “misconceptions” you can point out in my belief or how hard you try to guide me. I will not follow you. Jesus said, “My sheep hear my voice and will not follow the voice of another.”

EmbracingTheTruth Hub Author 5 months ago

You said "I believe the Bible tells us all that it needs, why shouldn’t it when early Israel had what they needed without all having Spirit gifts?" The answer is in the New Testament. Have you not read that we are under a new covenant, and that we to walk in the Spirit, which the Israelites did not have access to?

EmbracingTheTruth Hub Author 5 months ago

You quoted Job 26:13 “By His spirit He has garnished the heavens.” You have taken ONE line out of the context and use it to say that God has revealed it to you that Jesus is Lord. REad the whole context, it clearly speaks of the creation.

Then you use 2 Peter 1:21 to say that “God’s word, the Bible, came by the Holy Spirit and God guides His people.” Please just read what it says there before you interpret what it means. “For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God SPAKE (key word here is spake, not wrote) as they were moved by the HOly Ghost.”

Jesus told his disciples in John 16:12-13 “I have yet many things to say unto you, but you cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth is come, he will guide you into all truth.”

John writes:

2 John 12 “having many things to write unto you, I would not write with paper and ink: but I trust to come unto , and speak face to face, that our joy may be full.”

3 John 13 “I had many thing to write, but I will not with ink and pen write unto thee: But I trust I shall shortly see thee, and we shall speak face to face.”

So if Jesus had many things to say, but couldn’t say them, and John had many things to write, but didn’t write them, How then are we to have the complete truth??????

You said: “To decide something important I should not think, “This feels right” or “I think that…” rather I should be saying this is what God's word says. Jeremiah 17:9 “The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?” I believe I should base my life on God’s teaching in the Bible rather than basing some things, thinking that this has been revealed to me from a spirit within.”

Do you know that there is a difference between your heart and your conscience? We should never follow our heart, but always our conscience because a clean conscience knows the difference between right and wrong. A clean conscience is able to hear the Spirit and follow it.

The heart of Jesus did NOT want to go to the cross. But His conscience told him that it was the right thing to do. When your conscience is clear and you follow it, then there is no wondering, “Am I doing the right thing? Is this really what God wants me to do”. The Spirit will not leave you guessing when you keep your conscience clear. And the only way to keep a clear conscience, is to go and sin no more. Don’t believe me, just read the BIble.

The reason you can’t find anyone with powerful gifts is because the nations are too sinful. No one believes the command “to go and sin no more” is for real. That is a talent that is given to us, and if we don’t work with it, then it will never multiply, meaning we will never receive those gifts.

You say there is no healing. I wish that I could explain to you in detail the hopeless state that I was left in by my own family, the doctors and religious leaders. And I wish that you could see me now after I began to follow after God (obeying a few simple comandments). You cannot say that there is no more healing when you do not know the miracle that God has worked in my life.

You said “Galatians 3:23 is past tense there is the new way of faith now.” You are absolutely right. But it is not yet past tense for everyone because not everyone has received faith. And before they can receive faith, they are under the law. meditate on the verse and you’ll understand it.

You said: “You’ve already agreed that we don’t have to keep the Sabbath.” I never said that we don’t need to keep it. What I have said is that I cannot tell you to keep it because that is the job of the Holy Spirit. If the Holy Spirit does not tell you to keep it, then you don’t need to keep it, but if it is revealed to you that the commandments are not done away with, then you must keep it.

You also said: “You agree then that Matthew 3:11 has been fulfilled as no one is now baptised in fire?” No I do not agree that it is fullfilled. If we are not baptized in fire on this side of death, we will not have a chance to survive the fire on the other side.

If no one is being baptized in fire today then noone is being saved. And isn’t that a question that Jesus asked: “When the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?” Luke 18:8.

In regards to 1 corinthians 13, I already gave my interpretation of it and it hasn’t changed. What is the knowledge that will pass away? The knowledge of God that we value today. The knowledge of the resurrection, the knowledge of baptism, the knowledge of the gifts of the Spirit will become so small in light of what we will receive then. It is not to say the knowledge will become useless, but we won’t focus on it anymore because there will be bigger and better things to focus on. The knowledge, the Holy Spirit and Prophecy that we have today will not pass until Jesus returns.

You said: “Seeing face to face can be another metaphor like children growing up showing that the partial is to be replaced with the perfect (complete).” Of Course! When we see Jesus face to face, then the things we know now won’t matter anymore because we’ll see the big picture. Everything we value now will seem irrelevant to what we will know then.

You say that you believe it, but yet, you still argue the point. Do you not see your own contradictions here? You need to decide who you want to serve, the church, or God. Jesus said that you cannot serve 2 masters at once.

I never said that isolation was the ONLY way to move forward, but it is a good and perhaps the best way to do so because then you have no distractions. When you read the Bible you will find that pretty much ALL the Old Testaments saints found themselves isolated many times. And so did many of Jesus’ disciples.

Hebrews 10:25 says to meet with believers. (keyword is believers in God, NOT believers in a church or believers in themselves. Nor does it mean hypocrites.) I do not know of any believers whom I can meet with because they all deny the power of the HOly Spirit. Even though they claim to have the Spirit, they do not believe in the power of it.

When God created Adam, He said, “it is not good for man to be alone.” Then in Proverbs 21:19 we read “It is better to dwell in the wilderness, than with a contentious and an angry woman.” Yes it is good to associate with believers, but it is better to be alone than to end up with the wrong crowd. Very simple.

Again, you say that you believe in God’s word, but you don’t.

EmbracingTheTruth Hub Author 5 months ago

As for keeping the Sabbath I seem to have given the wrong impression and I apologize. What I meant was that I don’t have to keep the Sabbath in order to be saved, but I want to keep it in order to obtain the benefits from it and to spend more time with God. When your desire is to put God above everything else and when you have seen a glimpse of the beauty of God’s commands, then the “have to” is replaced with a “want to.” It’s no longer “I have to keep the Sabbath, but I want to keep it,” or, “I have to eat those veggies instead of the pizza, but I want to.”

You said: “As for following your conscience, you cannot use that as an excuse for doing what you think is best. We need to do God's will, this is shown in the Bible. Our beliefs and how we live our lives need to be based on God's word.”

Please explain to me why God gave us a brain if we can’t use it to decipher right from wrong. God works through our conscience, that is how He teaches us. When what we do is based upon what the Bible says, then we will have a clear conscience. But when we go against what the Bible says, then our conscience troubles us. Most people today cannot be by themselves, not even for a few hours. Why? Because they have a guilty conscience, and so they start watching tv, read a book, get together with a church group or any other group of people in order to numb their conscience. This is also why many people are depressed and need anti-depressants, because their conscience is bothering them and they need to numb it. It is the reason why people drink excess alcohol, eat excess food, or do drugs.

The conscience is the gift from God and we need to use it and keep it clean so that we can rely on it, because it is the channel through which the Spirit works.

Having the Holy Spirit, which Jesus had from birth, does not mean that one cannot be tempted or fall into sin. It simply means that you now have the power not to sin if you choose to use that power. If you choose not to use that power, then we reject the Holy Spirit in the moment of sin. And when we reject the Holy Spirit, He has to leave us until we are repentant of our action. Once we repent, the Spirit can return again to us. But if we continue to push the Spirit away, eventually the Spirit will no longer return to us. When that happens, then we are susceptible to deception, our conscience becomes clogged and we lose sight of the truth, which is God.

Jesus was not a robot. He could have sinned, but He chose not to. The Holy Spirit is like a weapon that can save you from all the wild and dangerous animals in the forest. Having the weapon does not make you a robot. It does not mean that you will automatically destroy the attacking animal as it charges at you, but rather, you have to pick the weapon up and gather enough courage to down the animal before it downs you. In the same way, we have to choose to use the Holy Spirit to overcome sin, before it overcomes us.

Jesus chose to use the power of the Spirit in every moment of temptation because He recognized it and was in tune with Him. We on the other hand, were born into a sinful nature and we don’t always recognize the Spirit. Our lives are infested with sin and the Spirit cannot always get through to us because our conscience is marred. But Jesus never sinned, and thus His conscience was clear to always hear and follow the Spirit.

I do not deny His victory at all. But just because He overcame does not mean that I will overcome and be saved as well. If I don’t learn to walk by the same Spirit that Jesus walked by, then I will not overcome.

Jesus said that His followers would do greater miracles than He had done. What do you suppose He meant by that? What could be greater than to raise someone from the dead? And did the disciples do greater things than what Jesus did? It doesn’t seem like they did. But perhaps they did, and perhaps we can too. You see, Jesus only had to overcome temptation. He never sinned, and so there was no sin in His life to overcome. We not only have to overcome temptation, but sin as well. Isn’t that the greater miracle that will follow the believers of God?

EmbracingTheTruth Hub Author 5 months ago

You still have not answered my question as to why God gave us a brain if we are not allowed to use it. The Bible clearly teaches that we must keep our conscience clear. If you don’t believe that, then please explain why the gospel speaks about it. See 1 Timothy 1:19 and 1 Peter 3:16.

As for 1 Corinthians 4:1-4 you have to read it in context with chapter 3. The judgment it is speaking of has nothing to do with judging between right or wrong or keeping a clear conscience. It clearly means not to judge ourselves to be above others, and not to let the judgments of others affect how we think of ourselves.

2 Timothy 2:15. have you ever studied the Bible for yourself and what you believe or do you just follow blindly after men?

You said “So your saying that people aren't born with the power to not sin so it's not their fault if they sin?” We are not born with the Holy Spirit, but we all have acces to Him when we call upon the Lord. Therefore, it is always our fault when we sin consciously because then we have rejected the Spirit. As for a child that grows up on sugar because mommy and daddy allowed it, well that is a different story. The child is sinning unknowingly and will not be held accountable for it.

Tell me, which is the greater victory, to overcome sin or to have never sinned? to beat the cancer or to prevent it in the first place?

Jesus said in John 14:12: “Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.”

As far as I know the rest of the Bible is silent in regards to this verse. I cannot find any verse that says that so-and-so did greater works than Jesus. But Jesus said that it would happen, and I choose to believe it. And the only thing that I can think of is the miracle of overcoming sin, which we must do in order to be saved. Can you find any evidence anywhere in the Bible where anyone performed a greater work than Jesus? Please do not ignore the words of Jesus.

You are right the books of John were written before the Bible, as we know it today, was completed. Both Jesus and John said that they had many things to say. What were they, and where can we read about what John wanted to tell the rest of the church? He wrote those words at the end of his letter. Tell me, when did he finally decide to write those many things down so that we can read them too?

I am not sure what you are asking about Galatians 3:23. What I am saying is that before we can obtain faith, we must keep the commandments. Once we learn to keep the commandments, which is the first talent that we are given, then we receive the second which is faith. Then once we receive faith, then we walk by faith, yet still continue to keep the commandments because faith will help prevent us to consciously break them.

Of course I still believe that there are prophets and apostels. However, I do not know any personally, and I would be surprised if there were any in Christianity because it is the anti-christ system.

EmbracingTheTruth Hub Author 5 months ago

“And they said unto Moses, Speak thou with us, and we will hear: but let not God speak with us, lest we die.” Exodus 20:19

Things haven’t changed; the people of Israel wanted God to speak to them through Moses, and people today want God to speak to them through the Bible, and through the Bible alone.

If your conscience is clear and directed towards God, then it will never contradict with what is in the Bible. We will always feel a desire to take the easy way out and go in the wrong direction, and sometimes that feeling might seem right to us at the time. But our conscience, when it is in tune with God, will lead us in the right direction. Jesus gave us the perfect example of that in the Garden of Gethsemane.

However, with us being human and of a sinful nature, we usually learn after the sin is committed because we are unable to recognize the Spirit of truth from the lies that we choose to believe. Therefore, we commit the sin only to discover afterwards that we made a mistake. Then once we know that we messed up, then we need to find strength through the Spirit so that we do not commit the same sin again.

The Bible says that the heart is deceitfully wicked above all things. Yet is also says:

“For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things. Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then we have confidence before God.” 1 John 3:20-21.

Explain to me how I can go to church and get baptized when it is against my conscience to do so. How do I keep my conscience clear in such a case. And if I go to hell because I didn’t go to church, then how can you call God a good God. (I am not asking for advice, but rather, would like to know how you explain your own contradictions.)

You said: “I thought you believed that everyone receives the Holy Spirit at some point in their lives not that they can call for it in a time of need, I'm a bit confused.”

Not everyone will receive the Holy Spirit, but He will come to each and every individual at least once in there lifetime. If He is rejected, then He shies away. But if He is accepted, even in an unperfect way, the Spirit will keep coming back. From what I can gather, the more room that you give the Spirit, the further He moves into your life to work with you so that you can overcome sin. The Spirit is always there for us to call on when we need Him.

But when you reject the Spirit, then he leaves you alone to live and die in your sins. The rejection of the Holy Spirit, by the way, is the ultimate sin that cannot be forgiven. For if we don’t work with the Spirit, then we won’t know how to live our lives according to His plan, and then we will not be saved. (The Bible doesn’t say that it will convict us of sin, but rather, the Holy Spirit will convict us. and if we don’t have Him, then we cannot be saved.)

You said: “It sounds to me like your saying that the Lord Jesus was given the Holy Spirit from birth so that it was easy/easier for him to overcome whereas we are thrown in at the deep end, and that's not right.”

It wasn’t easy for Jesus to always do the will of the Father, but because He was in tune with God and the Spirit, He was able to receive the power needed in order to overcome. He recognized that power because He kept His conscience clear. We on the other hand, were born of a sinful nature, which makes it more difficult to overcome sin, but it doesn’t mean that our lives are more difficult. It is just easier to avoid a mud puddle than to climb out of one. That is all I am saying.

When was the last time you sweat droplets of blood? Or when was the last time you saw someone else sweat blood? The road that was set before Jesus was so difficult that his sweat turned to blood. I can’t say that it has ever happened to any other human being.

Acts 5:12-15 doesn’t state that the miracles were greater than what Jesus performed. They performed miracles and gathered large crowds and Jesus also did the same thing.

So my question remains, what miracles have been done that were greater than what Jesus did?

You said: “I think faith comes before keeping commandments, that's why you keep them. This seems to agree with the order in Peter - 2 Peter 1:5”

I guess you could say that, because how else would you know to keep the commandments? However, the amount of faith that we receive at the get-go is just enough for us to keep the commandments or maybe even just a few of them. It is like the one talent that we need to work with so that it multiplies. As we keep the commandments, then God can start to give us more faith as we are able to receive it. This means that instead of focusing on not killing our neighbour that we focus on overcoming the emotions that might lead to killing. Thus the law no longer has an effect on us, because we are keeping it at a much higher level. Without this type of faith that enables us to live from day to day in the presence of God, we are lost.

1 Corinthians 15:8 says nothing about Paul being the last apostle. He simply says that of all the apostles alive at the time, he was the last one to see Jesus. An apostle is simply someone whom God sends to spread a message. http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexico Apostles don’t have to write the Bible, they just preach whatever God has instructed them to preach. If you think that every apostle has to contribute to writing the Bible, then tell me where I can find all their writings. And if you think that, then the Bible isn’t completed yet.

As for prophets, they prophecy. Revelation promises that God will raise up a couple of powerful prophets in the last days to prophecy.

Also see Acts 2:14-18; a message that Peter preached on the day of pentecost when the disciples were accused of being drunk:

14) “But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:

15) For these are not drunken as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.

16) But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;

17) And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God,, I will pour out my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophecy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

18) And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:”

Peter is making it clear that they were already living in the last days the Joel was speaking of on the day of Pentecost. These last days, the prophecy of Joel will not end until Jesus comes back. Therefore, prophecy and the work of apostles will also not cease.

How can you deny the Bible when it is so plain and simple?

EmbracingTheTruth Hub Author 4 months ago

It is Jesus who said that the Spirit would lead us into truth, and I believe the words of Jesus.

I do not believe in an unjust God. Therefore, I believe that God will send the Spirit to every individual in order to try an win them over. Although God uses people for His work, He doesn’t rely on them. Jesus said the Holy Spirit would convict the world of sin. That means everyone.

If Jesus did not have an advantage over us, then can you tell me why it was necessary for Jesus to be born of the Holy Spirit and Mary?

Can you name a specific miracle to fulfill John 14:12?

EmbracingTheTruth Hub Author 4 months ago

Well we obviously disagree on the Holy Spirit thing, and I rest my case.

You said "If people were left out it still wouldn't be injustice as God gives us far more than we deserve." How do you align that phrase with the verse that says that God doesn't want that any man should be lost. If God doesn't want that any man should be lost, then He will do everything that He can do to bring them in. And He does so with the Holy Spirit. NO ONE will go to hell because he/she was left out and didn't know any better.

Of course Jesus was tempted, I never said that He wasn't.

And I take it that you are unable to give a specific miracle greater than what Jesus performed, which proves that the Bible is NOT the only resource that we need because it doesn't contain all the information that Jesus wanted to share with us.

EmbracingTheTruth Hub Author 3 months ago

Hi Luke, Thanks for stopping by.